Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Doon frae Troon]

How well will Scotland do with providing the necessary additional infrastructure 250,000 new people arriving a year will require? And, will the businesses pay the staff the wages to keep them interested in staying? Lots going home from these parts as wages don't equate with living costs...

Cost of living is much cheaper in Scotland when you factor in house prices/university fees/community charge etc.
Plus of course lower income tax for anyone earning an average wage.

 

[drdel]

I think you misunderstood my post. My point was that many, many very good reasons for leaving have been outlined by you, me and others over thousands of posts and yet one or two people are stating that they have not seen a single reason why we should leave.

Re-read your post: sorry 'fingers in gear; mind in neutral '!

 

[MegaSteve]

Cost of living is much cheaper in Scotland when you factor in house prices/university fees/community charge etc.
Plus of course lower income tax for anyone earning an average wage.

Supply and demand will see the cost of housing rise... What about rise in need of school places, hospital beds and public transport? How will Scotland fund those additional costs?

 

[Hacker Khan]

Supply and demand will see the cost of housing rise... What about rise in need of school places, hospital beds and public transport? How will Scotland fund those additional costs?

You do what any government will do, prioritise spending on where you feel it is needed the most. God forbid we may even raise taxes a bit to pay for decent public services to benefit the whole country.

 

[MegaSteve]

You do what any government will do, prioritise spending on where you feel it is needed the most. God forbid we may even raise taxes a bit to pay for decent public services to benefit the whole country.

Sadly governments with a conscience don't last...

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Supply and demand will see the cost of housing rise... What about rise in need of school places, hospital beds and public transport? How will Scotland fund those additional costs?

By becoming independent for starters.

From the taxes of an expanded workforce of course.....like it has always done.

Something that SE England has done quite a bit of over the last 50 years.

 

[MegaSteve]

By becoming independent for starters.

From the taxes of an expanded workforce of course.....like it has always done.

Something that SE England has done quite a bit of over the last 50 years.

Pie in the sky thinking... If all you have to offer is minimum wage (at best) employment tax income, unless you skyrocket the standard rate, won't keep up with infrastructure costs... Unless Scottish businesses are more willing to stump up than the likes of Amazon...

 

[bluewolf]

Supply and demand will see the cost of housing rise... What about rise in need of school places, hospital beds and public transport? How will Scotland fund those additional costs?

That's an interesting point.
The assertion is that, as population rises artificially, the tax take of the UK doesn't match the increase and then there'll be a significant imbalance, resulting in shortages/deficiencies in the infrastructure..

I'm at work so can't really look, but wouldn't it be interesting if someone looked at the Tax take of the UK in 2000/2001 then in 2017/2018. Then compared this total to the population increase. Then we could work out just how thin the money is spread. I mean, it has to have gone down, or else all these assertions would effectively be lies, wouldn't they?

 

[SocketRocket]

Cost of living is much cheaper in Scotland when you factor in house prices/university fees/community charge etc.
Plus of course lower income tax for anyone earning an average wage.

Ok if you are a student buying a house on average wage.

 

[MegaSteve]

That's an interesting point.
The assertion is that, as population rises artificially, the tax take of the UK doesn't match the increase and then there'll be a significant imbalance, resulting in shortages/deficiencies in the infrastructure..

I'm at work so can't really look, but wouldn't it be interesting if someone looked at the Tax take of the UK in 2000/2001 then in 2017/2018. Then compared this total to the population increase. Then we could work out just how thin the money is spread. I mean, it has to have gone down, or else all these assertions would effectively be lies, wouldn't they?

Sorry, I am not the best at googling... It would appear... As a percentage of GDP total tax income appears to be down... No doubt foxy will be along shortly to advise I've got that wrong...

 

[Hobbit]

That's an interesting point.
The assertion is that, as population rises artificially, the tax take of the UK doesn't match the increase and then there'll be a significant imbalance, resulting in shortages/deficiencies in the infrastructure..

I'm at work so can't really look, but wouldn't it be interesting if someone looked at the Tax take of the UK in 2000/2001 then in 2017/2018. Then compared this total to the population increase. Then we could work out just how thin the money is spread. I mean, it has to have gone down, or else all these assertions would effectively be lies, wouldn't they?

Income tax revenue has risen from £105bn to £181bn.
Total tax receipts have risen from £315bn to £594bn.

Population 58m to 66m.

 

[Tashyboy]

By becoming independent for starters.

From the taxes of an expanded workforce of course.....like it has always done.

Something that SE England has done quite a bit of over the last 50 years.

You may well find that the jobs you want to create are low skilled and low paid. And if that is the case then you are competing with third world countrys in the way of paying wages. If that is the case you are bring •ing in migrants for the benefit of who ? Now i could be wrong and in Scotland you have vast swathes of skilled people and highly educated children leaving school ready to go into highly skilled jobs. Me finks not. Thise jibs are just not there but you want 250k of migrants a year looking for them. Dream on.

PS. How many of those 250 K a year do you think will stay in Scotland or do you think any of them
Might just make there way South where the streets are paved with gold.

 

[bluewolf]

Income tax revenue has risen from £105bn to £181bn.
Total tax receipts have risen from £315bn to £594bn.

Population 58m to 66m.

So, in summary, as the population has risen, the tax take has risen at a faster rate? This means that the population increase is actually a red herring when looking at spending on infrastructure. So, it looks like the fault lies not with immigrants, but with the choices that successive Governments have made. Glad we've put that idea to bed. We can probably concentrate on real problems now, and not convenient excuses..

 

[Hobbit]

So, in summary, as the population has risen, the tax take has risen at a faster rate? This means that the population increase is actually a red herring when looking at spending on infrastructure. So, it looks like the fault lies not with immigrants, but with the choices that successive Governments have made. Glad we've put that idea to bed. We can probably concentrate on real problems now, and not convenient excuses..

If only it was that simple. Have a look at the interest on govt debt.

That said, imagine the trouble the country would be in if immigrants hadn't been paying tax.

 

[bluewolf]

If only it was that simple. Have a look at the interest on govt debt.

That said, imagine the trouble the country would be in if immigrants hadn't been paying tax.

Yup, the big Ponzi scheme is ready to burst. Thank God for immigrants. We'd be in real trouble if they hadn't come in and started paying taxes!!!

I suppose the real issue is Government debt. The real reason that money isn't being spent on infrastructure is nothing to do with immigration levels, and everything to do with the vast amount of debt we are in since the Banking crisis. Immigration is actually helping to keep us afloat. The increased Tax Take from an increasing population is stopping us sliding back into recession. #huganimmigranttoday

 

[MegaSteve]

Yup, the big Ponzi scheme is ready to burst. Thank God for immigrants. We'd be in real trouble if they hadn't come in and started paying taxes!!!

I suppose the real issue is Government debt. The real reason that money isn't being spent on infrastructure is nothing to do with immigration levels, and everything to do with the vast amount of debt we are in since the Banking crisis. Immigration is actually helping to keep us afloat. The increased Tax Take from an increasing population is stopping us sliding back into recession. #huganimmigranttoday

Sadly they appear to be returning home from these parts... Can't afford our cost of living on the wages being offered...

 

[Hobbit]

Yup, the big Ponzi scheme is ready to burst. Thank God for immigrants. We'd be in real trouble if they hadn't come in and started paying taxes!!!

I suppose the real issue is Government debt. The real reason that money isn't being spent on infrastructure is nothing to do with immigration levels, and everything to do with the vast amount of debt we are in since the Banking crisis. Immigration is actually helping to keep us afloat. The increased Tax Take from an increasing population is stopping us sliding back into recession. #huganimmigranttoday

And as unpopular as it is, maybe cutting Corporation Tax to stimulate business isn't hurting the tax take.

 

[bluewolf]

And as unpopular as it is, maybe cutting Corporation Tax to stimulate business isn't hurting the tax take.

It isn't.. I'd also like to see a bigger Tax hit on profits. Not because it'll increase the tax take, but because it'll force Companies to reinvest in the business so as to avoid it. Trickle down economics doesn't work. Far better to force re-investment in training and machinery. Especially if you give bigger tax breaks for training and bigger tax breaks for buying locally innovated and produced machines.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Anyway, back on topic, vote on May's deal confirmed for 15th Jan and her resignation confirmed for the 17th Jan. Article 50 will be postponed for a year on the 18th Jan and a general election called on the 20th Jan to take place in mid March with Javid as the leader of the Tory party.

 

[Hobbit]

It isn't.. I'd also like to see a bigger Tax hit on profits. Not because it'll increase the tax take, but because it'll force Companies to reinvest in the business so as to avoid it. Trickle down economics doesn't work. Far better to force re-investment in training and machinery. Especially if you give bigger tax breaks for training and bigger tax breaks for buying locally innovated and produced machines.

Half through reading your post I was about to post up “tax breaks” for reinvestment and training.

But buying locally...? You’ll be voting for Brexit next