Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

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MegaSteve said:
Or, perhaps 'big business' could buck the trend and do the right thing for its workforce...
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They could but again that’s not the fault of the EU - fingers should be pointed at the people that profit from zero hour contracts and the people that have the right to change to outlaw them
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Not confused at all - we do and we can create our own laws , is the UK constitution not create by ourselves ? Our government can ammend laws etc that we abide by etc ? Is that not right

And then there are rules and regulations - Working rights , environmental rights etc with the framework all detailed by the EU but each country has a say and the MEP’s involved etc -

Is it not two seperate frameworks ? Laws and rights ?

We are part of a trade bloc so must adhere to the rights of the workers within that trade bloc but the laws each person must life by are set down by the UK ? Yes ?
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Perhaps you could show me a copy of the UK constitution you speak of.... I'd be really keen to see the document/pdf/photo copy/screenshot.... you do know the UK doesn't have a written constitution don't you? Many people wish it did have a constitution by the way but I look forward to you posting up a copy of the UNwritten constitution.

And its not two separate frameworks. But please post up a link showing its only laws and rights... oh, and directives... guess that makes 3. And environmental rights... is that rights or laws? They are 2 very different things. Are you getting confused again?

"We are part of a trade bloc so must adhere to the rights of the workers..." You do realise the UK still has a veto on workers rights, one of the few vetos Blair didn't give up. Maybe you could explain how the UK adheres to the EU working time directive.............. for which it exercised its right of veto.

"We can create our own laws..." Perhaps you can explain the first paragraph in post # 3498. Each member state in the EU writes its own laws, but in a lot of cases the root law is an EU law, or its a 'local' law that has passed a compliance test with the EU. We may write some of our laws but not without reference to the EU laws. So to repeat the question in post #3498, which is the higher court?

And I refer you to the last sentence/question in that post. Any chance of an answer?
 
Hobbit said:
Perhaps you could show me a copy of the UK constitution you speak of.... I'd be really keen to see the document/pdf/photo copy/screenshot.... you do know the UK doesn't have a written constitution don't you? Many people wish it did have a constitution by the way but I look forward to you posting up a copy of the UNwritten constitution.

And its not two separate frameworks. But please post up a link showing its only laws and rights... oh, and directives... guess that makes 3. And environmental rights... is that rights or laws? They are 2 very different things. Are you getting confused again?

"We are part of a trade bloc so must adhere to the rights of the workers..." You do realise the UK still has a veto on workers rights, one of the few vetos Blair didn't give up. Maybe you could explain how the UK adheres to the EU working time directive.............. for which it exercised its right of veto.

"We can create our own laws..." Perhaps you can explain the first paragraph in post # 3498. Each member state in the EU writes its own laws, but in a lot of cases the root law is an EU law, or its a 'local' law that has passed a compliance test with the EU. We may write some of our laws but not without reference to the EU laws. So to repeat the question in post #3498, which is the higher court?

And I refer you to the last sentence/question in that post. Any chance of an answer?
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I'd recommend people to listen to this podcast with regards to our constitution. Yes we do not have one written document, but then again there are many part of it, some of them not unwritten https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b096j4m2
 
Hobbit said:
Perhaps you could show me a copy of the UK constitution you speak of.... I'd be really keen to see the document/pdf/photo copy/screenshot.... you do know the UK doesn't have a written constitution don't you? Many people wish it did have a constitution by the way but I look forward to you posting up a copy of the UNwritten constitution.
..,.
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Where in LPP's post did he state that UK's constitution was written?
Because, as you correctly point out, the UK constitution is a combination of several sources. The ultimate arbiter of UK constitutional matters is The Supreme Court. That very fact indicates that there is some body of work that constitutes a constitution, even if not a written one.

The UK is not the only country without one either. A couple of others seem to get by without one. And one of the dangers of written constitution is the gradual degredation/change of the meaning of text over time - the 2nd amendment of the US Consrtitution being the most visible/contentious example.
 
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Liverpoolphil said:
Sums it up very well - I don’t trust our governments in any shape or form and believe there are a lot of human rights and workers rights that have been brought in by the EU that our government wouldn’t have bothered with. It’s the same with EU grants - lots of areas around the UK have been able to regenerate and flourish due to grants from the EU - the counter argument is “well it’s our money anyway” - my question is why didn’t our government spend the money there ? Why did it need EU grants all over the UK - mainly because the governments over the past couple of decades are so “London Focused”
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You seem to be struggling with the economics. If we are a net contributor we dont get any money we have not paid in ourselves. We also had to fund 50% of the project. How on earth could you expect the UK to fund these projects when they were paying money in to the EU for project funding. Should all that go to other countries ?
We have general elections at least every 5 years and can decide what type of party governs us, why would you prefer a body that we dont elect to control things like workers and human rights. Our country has some of the best human and worker rights in the world and not just due to the EU? Your comments may be applicable to many eastern European and even some western Europeans who have produced some of the most evil administrations.
 
SocketRocket said:
You seem to be struggling with the economics. If we are a net contributor we dont get any money we have not paid in ourselves. We also had to fund 50% of the project. How on earth could you expect the UK to fund these projects when they were paying money in to the EU for project funding. Should all that go to other countries ?
We have general elections at least every 5 years and can decide what type of party governs us, why would you prefer a body that we dont elect to control things like workers and human rights. Our country has some of the best human and worker rights in the world and not just due to the EU? Your comments may be applicable to many eastern European and even some western Europeans who have produced some of the most evil administrations.
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As ever, it's no so simple as the Daily Mail headlines make it http://www.democraticaudit.com/2016/06/23/is-the-eu-really-run-by-unelected-bureaucrats/ https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-brussels-bureaucrats/

And as for Western European evil administrations then the Thatcher government was in the 80s, time to let it go.....
 
SocketRocket said:
You seem to be struggling with the economics. If we are a net contributor we dont get any money we have not paid in ourselves. We also had to fund 50% of the project. How on earth could you expect the UK to fund these projects when they were paying money in to the EU for project funding. Should all that go to other countries ?
We have general elections at least every 5 years and can decide what type of party governs us, why would you prefer a body that we dont elect to control things like workers and human rights. Our country has some of the best human and worker rights in the world and not just due to the EU? Your comments may be applicable to many eastern European and even some western Europeans who have produced some of the most evil administrations.
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Do you mean like thatchers Tories in the 80’s ripping the heart out of the industry and being happy to let northern areas rot.

Can you tell me why it took many areas in tbe UK for them to apply for EU grants to get much needed funding to regenerate areas - our government have no problems finding billions to get people into London 8 mins quicker

And my life has been fine being part of the EU and believe their rights for workers and human rights have been very good for us
 
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Liverpoolphil said:
Do you mean like thatchers Tories in the 80’s ripping the heart out of the industry and being happy to let northern areas rot.

Can you tell me why it took many areas in tbe UK for them to apply for EU grants to get much needed funding to regenerate areas - our government have no problems finding billions to get people into London 8 mins quicker

And my life has been fine being part of the EU and believe their rights for workers and human rights have been very good for us
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The point as you have already stated which these muppets can not grasp is the EU re distributes without political motivations... unlike any of our governments red or blue.
 
Hacker Khan said:
As ever, it's no so simple as the Daily Mail headlines make it http://www.democraticaudit.com/2016/06/23/is-the-eu-really-run-by-unelected-bureaucrats/ https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-brussels-bureaucrats/

And as for Western European evil administrations then the Thatcher government was in the 80s, time to let it go.....
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I was referring to the evil administrations of Germany, Spain and Italy within a few generations.
Are you accusing me of being influenced by the Daily Mail? Im talking about who finances our EU grants and if you believe I am wrong in my assumptions then prove it rather than using sill editorial links.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Do you mean like thatchers Tories in the 80’s ripping the heart out of the industry and being happy to let northern areas rot.

Can you tell me why it took many areas in tbe UK for them to apply for EU grants to get much needed funding to regenerate areas - our government have no problems finding billions to get people into London 8 mins quicker

And my life has been fine being part of the EU and believe their rights for workers and human rights have been very good for us
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Again you show that you have a poor grasp of business and ecconomics.
You Blame Thatchers Tories for ripping the heart out of industry and being happy for the Northern areas to rot. How exactly dod that work then, did Thatcher and her Tory mates march like stormtroopers into factories and shipyards with sledge hammers and crowbars in their hands then set to ripping the heart out of them. I think that's a rather emotional and unbalanced view on reality, these industries were inefficient and hemeraging money, they had not modernised and invested in new technology and production techniques, many were producing products of poor standard and were plagued by the trade unions commitig industrial hari kari and following a policy of trying to pull down the Government. Your precious EU was using the grants you love so much to encourage new production facilities in other countries such that they could produce the products the UK were failing with. I guess you were a child during this period and didnt experience the blackouts and three day working weeks due to union militancy, how the rubbish was festering in the streets and the dead being unburied.

Dont lecture me on Maggie Thatcher ripping the heart out of industries, do you honestly believe its the role of government to bail out all inefficient industries, even when doing so will simply hemerage money that should be spent on the NHS, social services, housing, defence. Your mates in the EU never came galloping in with their money tree grants did they.

If you want a government that will prop up such industry and create a socialist utopia then vote for Corbyn and his mates, no doubt they will magic up all you desire.
 
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harpo_72 said:
The point as you have already stated which these muppets can not grasp is the EU re distributes without political motivations... unlike any of our governments red or blue.
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You need to be more involved in getting EU funding...you’d find it interesting

And , there is no EU funding...it’s your taxes, net of deductions
 
harpo_72 said:
Not an insult .. statement of fact until you behave otherwise 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Hmm, thought you were a hypocrite and thats not an insult. You are incapable of making a reasoned argument or defending a challenge when you post very questionable information. If you can stand up to a big boys debate then please bring it on and drop the assenous sniping.
 
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Changing the subject... anyone notice the trend among ultra-remainers from -

“An EU army is a fantasy”.

To -

“We could veto an EU army if we wanted to”.

To -

“What’s wrong with an EU army?”

To -

“An EU army is a necessity”.

🤨
 
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