SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I expect to see the Unicorns simile in the OED by year end.
A simile for unicorn...hmmm - deliberate - or a very pertinent typo? Unicorn = something fabulous that doesn't exist?
Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!
- Thread starter drdel
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A simile for unicorn...hmmm - deliberate - or a very pertinent typo? Unicorn = something fabulous that doesn't exist?
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
Scots Tory MP's calling for the resignation of the Scottish Secretary.
Well he did promise to resign if NI got a better Brexit deal than Scotland, mind you so did the Scots Tory leader.
Watch this space [not]
Well he did promise to resign if NI got a better Brexit deal than Scotland, mind you so did the Scots Tory leader.
Watch this space [not]
Old Skier
Tour Winner
If it wasn't obvious then there was no point. Like most of your petty little dig posts to all and sundry on here.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
I think I could almost accept this deal except for us having to apply minimum tariffs to the levels of those used by the EU. This is not making us an independent country but one where our international trade is still regulated by the EU.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
NI don't have a Brexit deal.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Ardent Leave proponent just interviewed by Shelagh Fogarty - told by Shelagh that the EU are saying today that there is no revising of the current draft Withdrawal Agreement - that enabling revisions to help May sort out her internal political issues is not for the EU.
When the Leaver is asked why get rid of May and put someone else in place to renegotiate the agreement - he replies - 'well they would say that' The denial is astonishing.
And we learn that Angela Leadsom - supposedly a supporter of May and the agreement - is said to be getting a working group together to re-write the draft Brexit Withdrawal Agreement over the next week. Right. OK. Rewrite the agreement for what reason - given the EU are saying - no revisions. I suppose they could wave it in front of the Great British public and claim that this is what the agreement could have looked like - and still could? What about the EU Angela...?
Good luck Angela. Nice to get sight of your duplicity.
When the Leaver is asked why get rid of May and put someone else in place to renegotiate the agreement - he replies - 'well they would say that' The denial is astonishing.
And we learn that Angela Leadsom - supposedly a supporter of May and the agreement - is said to be getting a working group together to re-write the draft Brexit Withdrawal Agreement over the next week. Right. OK. Rewrite the agreement for what reason - given the EU are saying - no revisions. I suppose they could wave it in front of the Great British public and claim that this is what the agreement could have looked like - and still could? What about the EU Angela...?
Good luck Angela. Nice to get sight of your duplicity.
I would expect the EU to say this is the final deal on offer until the UK formally refuses the deal. Think about it, why would someone say this is the deal but if you ask for more we'll revise the deal. Seems pretty obvious to me.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
But the Corbynistas are saying if we have a General Election and they are in.power they will negotiate a completely different agreement where we will get all the same benefits of being in the Eu.
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
I agree with this, but there is also the flip side as well if one of the EU countries don't accept a particular part of the agreement. Are the EU going to say no revisions or are they going to come back and say we need to amend this bit to get it passed.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
As I read this, you are agreeing that the EU should not have to renegotiate? THEY are laying down the law to US and you want to be part of that organisation?
I think the EU Irish/N Ireland solution is worse the more you look at it...for example, VAT will still be collected in Northern Ireland for the EU. Surely the price paid for a product in NI should be exempt form EU VAT?
The UK courts will be responsible for the continued implementation of EU law in NI.
Any goods from non-EU countries imported into NI will be subject to EU tariff rates - that's even worse than the previously stated tariffs rules offered for the rest UK.
The UK must apply the same tariff quotas as the EU.
Goods being exported from Ireland to the rest of the EU may pass freely through the UK without any interference from Customs or border checks. Transition agreements do exist in the rest of the world, however, there is the right to make checks. The Uk won't have this right, even if criminality is suspected.
All environmental legislation, both EU and global will continue in the UK after Brexit.
Max levels of agricultural subsidies will be decided by a joint committee - however the previous para states that the max level of subsidy of a produce that is exported to the EU will not exceed the EU rates.
The UK gov will set up an independent authority to supervise subsidies. This independent authority will operate under Union State Aid Provisions. The EU and the independent authority will share information to ensure the UK is compliant. WOW!! An EU body controlling the UK body that controls UK subsidies. WOW!! The UK body will consult with the EU on all draft decisions to ensure compliance. WOW!! The independent authority will not adopt the draft decision into law until it has been approved by the EU. WOW!! The UK courts will ensure the independent body complies with the decisions passed down from the EU body. WOW!! The EU will have legal standing in the decision making and the right to intervene. WOW!!
That's me 400 pages in. I will have probably misunderstood some of this but it doesn't sit comfortably with me.
The UK courts will be responsible for the continued implementation of EU law in NI.
Any goods from non-EU countries imported into NI will be subject to EU tariff rates - that's even worse than the previously stated tariffs rules offered for the rest UK.
The UK must apply the same tariff quotas as the EU.
Goods being exported from Ireland to the rest of the EU may pass freely through the UK without any interference from Customs or border checks. Transition agreements do exist in the rest of the world, however, there is the right to make checks. The Uk won't have this right, even if criminality is suspected.
All environmental legislation, both EU and global will continue in the UK after Brexit.
Max levels of agricultural subsidies will be decided by a joint committee - however the previous para states that the max level of subsidy of a produce that is exported to the EU will not exceed the EU rates.
The UK gov will set up an independent authority to supervise subsidies. This independent authority will operate under Union State Aid Provisions. The EU and the independent authority will share information to ensure the UK is compliant. WOW!! An EU body controlling the UK body that controls UK subsidies. WOW!! The UK body will consult with the EU on all draft decisions to ensure compliance. WOW!! The independent authority will not adopt the draft decision into law until it has been approved by the EU. WOW!! The UK courts will ensure the independent body complies with the decisions passed down from the EU body. WOW!! The EU will have legal standing in the decision making and the right to intervene. WOW!!
That's me 400 pages in. I will have probably misunderstood some of this but it doesn't sit comfortably with me.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Indeed they might - but what on earth are the EU going to move on? What about the Agreement is it that Leave voters don't like. Strikes me that it is simply the backstop for NI/EU border control - and as I have said - Leavers tell us that technological solutions for NI/EU border control already exist! It is just that the EU choose to pretend/insist that they don't. So where's their gripe?
chrisd
Major Champion
Sorry, I might not have been entirely clear, it was Foxholer who I said was not being entirely respectful with his comment to Bob. But I agree with Hobbit in that I object to your generalisation of leavers and in that matter you are being disrespectful at times. However, like Hobbit, I'd happily play a round of golf with you - so long as politics was taboo
bluewolf
Money List Winner
Life's all about opinions mate. As far as I can see it, the EU stated from the start that there were certain things they could not negotiate on. There is ABSOLUTELY no way they can give us a better deal than a current member state gets. There is absolutely no business sense in that. They are willing to negotiate around these margins.
Unfortunately, the areas that they don't want to negotiate on are the exact areas that we do want to negotiate on. It was always going to be a stalemate. It couldn't be anything else. Anyone saying that it could be is either misguided or is lying.
As an example, and I hate to use the golf club analogy as it's clumsy and some pedantic dullard will always find the smallest crack in it and whinge about it, but, Would you stay as a member of your golf club if a non member was playing regularly for less money and was still getting a handicap and playing in comps? There has to be a benefit to being a member or everyone leaves..
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
They might well be saying that. But Labour are not the party in government; the Tories are - and so they have to sort out this unholy mess - this awful shambles.
My understanding is that, were Labour in government prior to 29th March, they would drop some of May's Red Lines that have so constrained what the EU could offer, and seek an extension to the Art50 period. I have heard that the EU would most likely agree to that given the change of government and change of UK constraints/demands - as long as the extension did not run to the date of the European Parliament elections 23rd-26th May 2019.
BTW - I am most certainly do not support Corbyn.
The semantics of why the EU are saying the technological solutions don't exist is something you'd have to ask them. I might suggest that its to do with cost but the Netherlands and France are spending a fortune on putting controls in place. Why can't the same be done in Ireland? The cynical part of me feels that the EU is just being awkward. They've recognised the politics of the the people both sides of the border, and put Articles in place in the Agreement to cover that. For some strange reason they won't apply the same rules for trade to the Irish border as they do to the border in Estonia.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I will repeat. I consider the decision that the UK electorate (as a collective) has made to leave the EU, to be insane, mad and a folly of the highest degree. I do not think the same about individual voters. We all, each and every one of us, had our very good reasons for voting as we did. But I might suggest that whilst we were sold the benefits of leaving - few of us actually had a real understanding of all the complexities, impacts and issues associated with leaving in the context of the constraints / red lines as laid down by Theresa May in her Lancaster House speech - these being laid out after the referendum.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
The EU might have taken their stance on technological solutions available on purely tactical reasons - that's part of negotiation n'est-ce pas?
And it may well be that during the transition period implementation of such technological solutions that already exist, and that are being implemented elsewhere, can be planned and/or developed further.
So that if, come end July 2020, no trade agreement is in sight that removes the need for any NI/EU border control, then the backstop kicks-in and implementation of said border control solutions is initiated. The fact of there being no backstop end date is a red herring if technological solutions are in development or are already being implemented.
If no such solutions exist at the moment, and the EU were not simply playing the border control card as a negotiating tactic - then it is hardly surprising that an open-ended backstop period is felt necessary. As it must be. There must be no hard border between EU and NI - even if that means the UK staying in a Customs Union with the EU for as long as...surely that is blindingly obvious to all Leave voters.
The same could be said of the Remain voters. How many of them were aware of the intention to create an EU army? How many of them were aware that the EU intend to create the position of an EU Chancellor, who will have authority to instruct individual countries on their spending? How many were aware of the proposed EU budget numbers for '21 to '27? I can't remember what exactly Juncker said about a week after the vote but it confirmed the Chancellor intention.
bluewolf
Money List Winner
Just on a side note.. What is the big issue about an EU army. When we have Russia on the Euro border, America flexing its muscles and China waiting patiently in the background. What is the big issue with becoming what would be the biggest dog in the park. A Liberal Superpower with an economy to match.. If you think about it along those lines, it becomes quite apparent why Russia would (allegedly) meddle in our affairs,,
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