Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Old Skier]

Isn't it strange that all those remainers on this site and in Parliament who said that the common man shouldn't have been allowed a vote on leaving the EU because the matter was to complex have been pushing for another referendum ever since they lost.

 

[Hobbit]

Staying in but worse off than if we actually stayed in - with notional ideas of having regained control and our sovereignty - how brilliant is that outcome...when we never really lost either - just that some told us we had and some of us really believed them and that regaining them would make all the difference. Well there you go.

The White Paper is a huge compromise between leaving and staying. Isn’t that what you’ve been asking for, for Leavers to recognise Remainers?

You don’t want the walk away, no deal. And it would appear you don’t want the compromise you’ve bleated on about since day 1.

Your true colours are really showing through now.

 

[drdel]

Staying in but worse off than if we actually stayed in - with notional ideas of having regained control and our sovereignty - how brilliant is that outcome...when we never really lost either - just that some told us we had and some of us really believed them and that regaining them would make all the difference. Well there you go.

It seems that there is absolutely nothing anyone can do or say that would meet with your approval. A vote was taken - the future will unfold and at the next election you can support the government or vote for the opposition as you are free to do in a democracy.

Perhaps the future direction of the UK seems so tragic that a change of citizenship might be a happier outcome. Where do you fancy might be an acceptable nation; obviously it will need to be somewhere with an accurate and very detailed plan?

 

[Blue in Munich]

Well whaddya know. Justin Greening proposing a further vote to unblock the deadlock as the Chequers Deal is rubbish. And in the face of much agreement that a No Deal would be disastrous - notwithstanding the confidence of some that a No Deal is the way to go and that things would be just fine after a short period of turbulence...not that too many who actually know about such things agree.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44840154

Staying in but worse off than if we actually stayed in - with notional ideas of having regained control and our sovereignty - how brilliant is that outcome...when we never really lost either - just that some told us we had and some of us really believed them and that regaining them would make all the difference. Well there you go.

NEWSFLASH; We don't need another referendum, we need a set of politicians with the will, brains and testicular fortitude to actually get the job done.

Rather than post on here, e-mail your mate Jeremy and his chums; the failure to enact the will of the majority of those who bothered to vote is entirely on the politicians, NOT the electorate.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The last thing this country needs is another bloody referendum or general election or any type of vote - they just need to have the moral backbone to get on with it regardless , sick of spineless politicians bottling it and constant whinging about the vote

It was all done wrong from the start but it’s done now - deal with it

 

[IanM]

Cameron was told there was NO CHANCE of a Leave win... when it happened they were ordered to put plan b into operation.... namely mess about and ignore the result

Funny thing I’ve been getting abusive emails from a former colleague about the Referendum for two years. Got another tonight, so I said I’ve kept them all and I’m sending them to his boss.. oh my he is in major panic mode!

 

[Dando]

NEWSFLASH; We don't need another referendum, we need a set of politicians with the will, brains and testicular fortitude to actually get the job done.

Rather than post on here, e-mail your mate Jeremy and his chums; the failure to enact the will of the majority of those who bothered to vote is entirely on the politicians, NOT the electorate.

Cant we have a vote on wether we have another referendum?

 

[IanM]

Irony = calls for another referendum by people who don’t accept referendum results!!

 

[Hobbit]

Cant we have a vote on wether we have another referendum?

I reckon it’ll be best of 10, stone, paper, scissors. Away votes count double, and the result will be overturned by VAR.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Irony = calls for another referendum by people who don’t accept referendum results!!

Double irony = calls for a second referendum by people who won the first referendum

 

[Hobbit]

Irony = calls for another referendum by people who don’t accept referendum results!!

Is that the Brexit vote or Scottish independence?

 

[spongebob59]

Is that the Brexit vote or Scottish independence?

:clap:

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The White Paper is a huge compromise between leaving and staying. Isn’t that what you’ve been asking for, for Leavers to recognise Remainers?

You don’t want the walk away, no deal. And it would appear you don’t want the compromise you’ve bleated on about since day 1.

Your true colours are really showing through now.

Yes - except by having to maintain, as best she can to at least some of her Red Lines, May has come up with a position that as far as I understand it will be damaging to the UK. Come up with a Deal that isn't most likely to be damaging to the UK and I might support it.

What May has come up with is not something she thinks folk who voted Remain might accept - No - it is something that she hopes the EU might accept. It is a compromise for the EU - not for us who did not vote to leave; for whom the mess that the government is in in trying to find a Deal that might work is simply confirmation that Leaving the EU can only be a disaster for the country.

And for those who think that leaving with No Deal - such easily said two words that hide massive implications and disruptions - that No Deal will be just fine and just what the country voted for - well - 'There are none so blind and those who refuse to see'.

But of course all of those who have spent the last two advocating that all will be fine - for whom accepting and admitting that maybe all is not what we thought or were told it would be would be very difficult indeed - all those folks will be unable to make that admission. And so May must enable that admission to be made by making it absolutely clear why she has had to come up with the deal she has - and why leaving with No Deal will be a disaster. Maybe she'll only do that when the Tory Party decide to get rid of her.

 

[spongebob59]

Yes - except by having to maintain, as best she can to at least some of her Red Lines, May has come up with a position that as far as I understand it will be damaging to the UK. Come up with a Deal that isn't most likely to be damaging to the UK and I might support it.

What May has come up with is not something she thinks folk who voted Remain might accept - No - it is something that she hopes the EU might accept. It is a compromise for the EU - not for us who did not vote to leave; for whom the mess that the government is in in trying to find a Deal that might work is simply confirmation that Leaving the EU can only be a disaster for the country.

but we did

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Isn't it strange that all those remainers on this site and in Parliament who said that the common man shouldn't have been allowed a vote on leaving the EU because the matter was to complex have been pushing for another referendum ever since they lost.

And now - as I predicted without the need for much insight - we start to hear supporters of Leave suggesting that a 'second' referendum is the only way to break the deadlock.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Yes - except by having to maintain, as best she can to at least some of her Red Lines, May has come up with a position that as far as I understand it will be damaging to the UK. Come up with a Deal that isn't most likely to be damaging to the UK and I might support it.

What May has come up with is not something she thinks folk who voted Remain might accept - No - it is something that she hopes the EU might accept. It is a compromise for the EU - not for us who did not vote to leave; for whom the mess that the government is in in trying to find a Deal that might work is simply confirmation that Leaving the EU can only be a disaster for the country.

Don’t kid yourself - the only thing you would support would be the vote being ignored and staying fully in Europe , your stance is quite clear , you are not willing to see if things can be better going forward outside the Eu , you are not willing to give people a chance. Every single day you have posted about Brexit over the past two years - nothing has changed in your stance - you have a clear disrespect for the democratic process that happened

The country voted - every single person had the chance to make their say and the result was clear

Either to stay in the EU or Leave the EU , whatever deal is struck that means we have left the deal satisfies the vote. What is it with some Scottish people who fail to respect a democratic vote.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It seems that there is absolutely nothing anyone can do or say that would meet with your approval. A vote was taken - the future will unfold and at the next election you can support the government or vote for the opposition as you are free to do in a democracy.

Perhaps the future direction of the UK seems so tragic that a change of citizenship might be a happier outcome. Where do you fancy might be an acceptable nation; obviously it will need to be somewhere with an accurate and very detailed plan?

You chose to ignore the fact that once we leave the EU we cannot vote at the next General Election to stay in. We can choose the government that most reflects our views and aspirations - and if in 5yrs that government has failed to deliver - we can vote them out. But we cannot simply do the same in respect of leaving the EU.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Don’t kid yourself - the only thing you would support would be the vote being ignored and staying fully in Europe , your stance is quite clear , you are not willing to see if things can be better going forward outside the Eu , you are not willing to give people a chance. Every single day you have posted about Brexit over the past two years - nothing has changed in your stance - you have a clear disrespect for the democratic process that happened

The country voted - every single person had the chance to make their say and the result was clear

Either to stay in the EU or Leave the EU , whatever deal is struck that means we have left the deal satisfies the vote. What is it with some Scottish people who fail to respect a democratic vote.

I can respect a leave vote - I would like a vote on the terms of leaving - that is democracy. Refusing a vote on the terms of leaving is anti-democratic. Democracy is a process. There is a set process for parliamentary elections and choosing and replacing governments. There is no set process for choosing to leave and rejoin the EU. The democratic process in respect of Leaving/Remaining can only truly operate prior to leaving. That should be very obvious.

 

[USER1999]

I can respect a leave vote - I would like a vote on the terms of leaving - that is democracy. Refusing a vote on the terms of leaving is anti-democratic. Democracy is a process. There is a set process for parliamentary elections and choosing and replacing governments. There is no set process for choosing to leave and rejoin the EU. The democratic process in respect of Leaving/Remaining can only truly operate prior to leaving. That should be very obvious.

There will be a vote on the terms of leaving. It will be held in the house of commons, exactly where it should be held. Was this not what the Gina Miller thing was all about?

 

[ColchesterFC]

I can respect a leave vote - I would like a vote on the terms of leaving - that is democracy. Refusing a vote on the terms of leaving is anti-democratic. Democracy is a process. There is a set process for parliamentary elections and choosing and replacing governments. There is no set process for choosing to leave and rejoin the EU. The democratic process in respect of Leaving/Remaining can only truly operate prior to leaving. That should be very obvious.

So you would accept a referendum on the terms of leaving and as you don't want to overturn the result of the referendum we could have 3 options if we were to have another vote.....

1) Reject the negotiated deal and send the government back to renegotiate our leaving terms
2) Accept the deal
3) Reject the deal and leave with no deal

That would satisfy your demands for a vote on the deal and doesn't require a "reject the deal and remain in the EU" option as you don't wish to overturn the original result. But of course that wouldn't be acceptable to you as despite all of your protestations what you really want is to stay in the EU and sod all those that voted leave.

And why can't we leave and then apply to rejoin? Do the EU rules expressly forbid any country that has left from applying to rejoin? I suspect that your main fear is that if there was to be a subsequent vote on whether to rejoin the EU it would be a landslide in favour of No simply because of how high our annual payments would be and what the EU would demand for us to rejoin. And of course the public shouldn't be trusted with a vote to rejoin as they can't possibly understand the complexity of what it would mean.