Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Grant85]

Lib Dems and SNP saying that they will support an election on 9th December but not 12th December as they don't want the deal negotiated to go through parliament before an election. Is three days actually going to make any difference when it's clear that the numbers just aren't there to get the deal agreed anyway?

This does seem a bit of both sides wanting things on their terms, just for the sake of it.

Although i do think at that time of year, Monday will be better than Thursday - given the number of Christmas events that will more likely be on nearer the weekend and people not bothering to go and vote.

And why not give the new government / HoC a few extra days to get things in order before Christmas recess.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

You can talk for yourself. I was crystal clear on the process when I voted. I understood that if we decided to leave article 50 would be enacted, there would be two years negotiations between our government and the EU to attempt a leaving deal, if no deal was reached we either left without one or a mutually agreed extension could be allowed to continue discussions on a deal, there was no mention at the time of second referendums or stopping article 50.
When people vote they vote according to what criteria they wish to make their decision: conscience, predujice, loyalty, class, facts, hatred, its up to them and no different whether it be an election or referendum, its just a democratic process.

You voted exactly the same way as me, the only way I’d suggest we’d differ is I never expected and still don’t want to Leave on No Deal terms.
Maybe, just Maybe the fact is, none of the present scenario was ever envisaged and the HoC should of looked at all possible scenarios(or tried) before this chain of events began.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Lib Dems and SNP saying that they will support an election on 9th December but not 12th December as they don't want the deal negotiated to go through parliament before an election. Is three days actually going to make any difference when it's clear that the numbers just aren't there to get the deal agreed anyway?

From what I have managed to grab from social media - if the Tories win an election on the 12th the timing I believe means that we can leave the EU with no deal - but we can’t if the election is on the 9th ? I have no idea why though

 

[SocketRocket]

You voted exactly the same way as me, the only way I’d suggest we’d differ is I never expected and still don’t want to Leave on No Deal terms.
Maybe, just Maybe the fact is, none of the present scenario was ever envisaged and the HoC should of looked at all possible scenarios(or tried) before this chain of events began.

I prefer us to leave with a good deal, that deal included a free trade agreement, i have doubts we will be able to reach a good trade deal with the eu and if so would prefer a no deal. After leaving there would (imo) be a number of smaller deals made anyhow. I dont agree with all this talk of crashing out and catestrophic outcomes. Its just a change of trading arrangements and will soon blow over and settle down. The EU will always want a trade deal with us.

 

[ColchesterFC]

From what I have managed to grab from social media - if the Tories win an election on the 12th the timing I believe means that we can leave the EU with no deal - but we can’t if the election is on the 9th ? I have no idea why though

This is what I've read as well but also don't understand why. If we have an election and the Tories win a majority then they could turn around and say we're leaving with no deal. The only way to absolutely take a no deal Brexit out of the equation is to agree to the deal that has been negotiated or revoke article 50. Even a second referendum can't guarantee it as another leave vote leaves that possibility on the table.

 

[clubchamp98]

I prefer us to leave with a good deal, that deal included a free trade agreement, i have doubts we will be able to reach a good trade deal with the eu and if so would prefer a no deal. After leaving there would (imo) be a number of smaller deals made anyhow. I dont agree with all this talk of crashing out and catestrophic outcomes. Its just a change of trading arrangements and will soon blow over and settle down. The EU will always want a trade deal with us.

The opposition want no deal off the table before a GE.
But isn’t that just another choice that should be open to us.
Why should they deny the public the chance to vote no deal.

 

[ColchesterFC]

The opposition want no deal off the table before a GE.
But isn’t that just another choice that should be open to us.
Why should they deny the public the chance to vote no deal.

The only way to take no deal off the table is to revoke article 50. Unless that is done then no deal remains an option.

 

[clubchamp98]

The only way to take no deal off the table is to revoke article 50. Unless that is done then no deal remains an option.

Not really bothered by the technicalities of it.
Just them telling me I can’t have that choice.
Nothing should be off the table!

 

[Mudball]

Why not have the vote on the 25th?? Everyone will be in their home constituencies ... equally we can finally say ‘Turkeys voting for Christmas’ ...

PS: any reference to Turkey joining the EU is purely coincidental

🦃 🦃 🦃 🦃

 

[harpo_72]

Just how many students generally don't vote, and will it impact the numbers that much? There's just over 2.3m students in the UK, of which just under 500k are foreign students. What is the usual turnout amongst the student community? 58% turnout amongst the student fraternity. Just over 1,000,000 voted. Just over 800,000 didn't vote.

With only 32,000,000 voting out of a potential 47,000,000 I'm inclined to think there's bigger problems engaging with the general adult population rather than students.... unless of course someone believes that only chasing the young is the way to swing it... cunning, conniving, duplicitous? Nah, no one would do that... would they?

The point was there was an attempt to reduce those voting numbers .. irrespective of the numbers

 

[Hobbit]

The point was there was an attempt to reduce those voting numbers .. irrespective of the numbers

That is just someone(Corbyn) putting spin on it to score cheap political points. Numbers I quoted show several things, 1) the % of students voting in the last GE is pretty close to the % turnout of the general population 2) in terms of the overall turnout it is 2% of the vote. 3) the argument around the date, in respect of students voting, is an absolute load of Rolex.

Have a look at the argument, i.e. it clashes with when the students go home. The students were at home for the last election yet voted in numbers comparable with the % of the general voting population.

And as for the continuous shouting that the young didn't vote in the referendum, and I too got took in by all the noise, 87% of students voted in the referendum, against an overall voter turnout of 72%. The largest % demographic of voters in the referendum was amongst students, beating the older generation by 12%. And BTW, have a look at the dates for different GE's and the referendum and then correlate that against the number of students that voted. Whether they were at home or at uni/college makes virtually no difference whatsoever.

The whole argument put out by Corbyn is pure, unadulterated spin to score cheap political points, and so many people are getting sucked in by it. Corbyn is one of the very best at playing the victim card on behalf of (supposed) disenfranchised groups and hoovers up votes because of it. People need to look at the detail, and realise what a charlatan he is.

 

[harpo_72]

That is just someone(Corbyn) putting spin on it to score cheap political points. Numbers I quoted show several things, 1) the % of students voting in the last GE is pretty close to the % turnout of the general population 2) in terms of the overall turnout it is 2% of the vote. 3) the argument around the date, in respect of students voting, is an absolute load of Rolex.

Have a look at the argument, i.e. it clashes with when the students go home. The students were at home for the last election yet voted in numbers comparable with the % of the general voting population.

And as for the continuous shouting that the young didn't vote in the referendum, and I too got took in by all the noise, 87% of students voted in the referendum, against an overall voter turnout of 72%. The largest % demographic of voters in the referendum was amongst students, beating the older generation by 12%. And BTW, have a look at the dates for different GE's and the referendum and then correlate that against the number of students that voted. Whether they were at home or at uni/college makes virtually no difference whatsoever.

The whole argument put out by Corbyn is pure, unadulterated spin to score cheap political points, and so many people are getting sucked in by it. Corbyn is one of the very best at playing the victim card on behalf of (supposed) disenfranchised groups and hoovers up votes because of it. People need to look at the detail, and realise what a charlatan he is.

It wasn’t Corbyn who raised it

 

[patricks148]

Conservatives shut down a number of archaic Mental Hospitals that were horrible institutions in place of the care in the community schemes, I think this was a progressive move. They also closed a number of military hospitals and moved military care into hospitals with specialist care for the trauma type injuries normally associated with the military. Im not sure if this was a great sucsess or not, maybe some on here will have had experience.

where i grew aup both local Hosp closed, St Albans and Harpenden, some of the Host you were then supposed to go to instead then started to have some OP depts moved to other hosp even further away

 

[Hobbit]

It wasn’t Corbyn who raised it

You're right. Barry Gardiner has just said it on BBC Breakfast. Can't find who raised it first.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

You're right. Barry Gardiner has just said it on BBC Breakfast. Can't find who raised it first.

Probably Cummings going for the 12th knowing the students will of gone home.

 

[Mudball]

You're right. Barry Gardiner has just said it on BBC Breakfast. Can't find who raised it first.

it is the Will of the Students.. does not matter who raises it.. it must be implemented 😜😜

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Probably Cummings going for the 12th knowing the students will of gone home.

Students will still be at university then. They finish and go home that weekend at most places. Saying that, it all depends where they are on the electoral register, at their parents home address or their university address? They can't be at both.

 

[Colonel Bogey]

A GE will be a referendum in another name. Just what else does anyone care about at the mo? They all say the same stuff anyway. NHS / Taxes / Transport / The old etc etc, they will do whatever they want, assuming they have a working majority. So it's all about Brexit. FULL STOP. Nigel is quiet isn't he?

Oh and the lastst thing about giving 16/17 yo the vote is just laughable. The Libs and the SNP are stark staring bonkers.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Students will still be at university then. They finish and go home that weekend at most places. Saying that, it all depends where they are on the electoral register, at their parents home address or their university address? They can't be at both.

I think they can. They just can't vote at both (though they can in Local elections...)

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I think they can. They just can't vote at both (though they can in Local elections...)

Sorry, well picked up. I meant to say that they can only vote at one location, I just didn't type it as I thought in my head. I wonder if those who can vote in two locations are actually monitored to ensure that they don't?

Very odd that you effectively can vote twice in local elections. That doesn't seem right and could be open to abuse.