Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[jp5]

Yep Labour have ballsed the whole thing up spectacularly, now showing in the polls.

We'd be out by now though if the Tories and their partners the DUP had fully backed the deal. So can't blame that one on Labour for opposing the government.

 

[chrisd]

This is the clip :

https://order-order.com/2019/07/05/andrew-neil-dismantles-new-eu-leaders/

Thanks. Not seen it before

 

[SocketRocket]

Yep Labour have ballsed the whole thing up spectacularly, now showing in the polls.

We'd be out by now though if the Tories and their partners the DUP had fully backed the deal. So can't blame that one on Labour for opposing the government.

Its not about Tory or Labour, its about parliamentarians respecting democracy or not.

 

[Foxholer]

Well you are, in fact our democratically elected prime minister negotiated a deal to leave. Then her party failed to ratify it. Hardly the EU's fault, that.

Perhaps that was because after over a year of negotiations, the 'deal' that the EU was prepared to make was not really a deal worth making! It potentially tied the UK to the EU forever! And that was certainly why some of those that rejected it did so! Others, of course, simply acted as per their defined role of 'representatives of their electorate' rejected the deal because they believe Remain is the best option!

Btw. I was never specifically invited to vote or reject May as PM except as a consequence of another 'democratic' process! That (voting for May as PM) would require a 'Presidential Election' not a 'General' one! And we know what sort of wealthy fool could win one of those! Mind you, if, as expected, Boris wins the Conservative Party member vote (another not particularly 'democratic' one), it's a pretty similar result!

 

[drdel]

I note that even Juncker admits and regrets that the appointment of his replacement was not more transparent and democratic. He did face an election (of sorts) !!!

 

[MegaSteve]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1146915369770090502

I humbly suggest remoaners don't view the link...
As the truth might prove a tad too much to stomach...

 

[drdel]

I humbly suggest remoaners don't view the link...
As the truth might prove a tad too much to stomach...

An excellent example of how to say nothing of relevance. Brussels is simply out of touch or refusing to acknowledge that the member states have realised their MEPs and Heads of State have no power yet carry the can with their citizens. Brussels formulates the planning, develops regulation, MEPs can agree but NOT disagree.

 

[Foxholer]

Its not about Tory or Labour, its about parliamentarians respecting democracy or not.

The use of the word 'democracy' above is simply wrong!

Parliamentarians - and their right to vote however they deem appropriate - is how UK's version of democracy works! They may be 'not respecting the result of the referendum', but that's a completely different issue.

 

[Foxholer]

I humbly suggest remoaners don't view the link...
As the truth might prove a tad too much to stomach...

She was 'easy pickings' for Neil, merely used as a 'platform' to voice his own opinions! He may as well have interviewed me!

 

[Foxholer]

... Brussels is simply out of touch or refusing to acknowledge that the member states have realised their MEPs and Heads of State have no power yet carry the can with their citizens. Brussels formulates the planning, develops regulation, MEPs can agree but NOT disagree.

Have they? Do they care? Many (most?) are nett recipients of EU funds, so it's not in their interest to 'rock the boat'! Several have (ab?)used the system so, again, is it really in their interest to cause trouble?

But 1 member state has been convinced, in a campaign fraught with exaggeration and downright lies, to reject (apparent) European Federalism. But it appears those federalists are significantly better negotiators/politicians (even the 'failed' ones as described by Neil) than those elected ones in UK!

That's why 'No Deal', with all the negative problems that will ensue, is the only the UK can get closure and move on - including/anticipating some tough trading and customs negotiations with EU. The only 'positive' of that is that trade BoP is 'in our favour' for that issue, mainly for 1 country (Germany) though! and Germany could well be 'consoled' by the possibility/likelihood of a massive boost to its Financial area!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Have they? Do they care? Many (most?) are nett recipients of EU funds, so it's not in their interest to 'rock the boat'! Several have (ab?)used the system so, again, is it really in their interest to cause trouble?

But 1 member state has been convinced, in a campaign fraught with exaggeration and downright lies, to reject (apparent) European Federalism. But it appears those federalists are significantly better negotiators/politicians (even the 'failed' ones as described by Neil) than those elected ones in UK!

That's why 'No Deal', with all the negative problems that will ensue, is the only the UK can get closure and move on - including/anticipating some tough trading and customs negotiations with EU. The only 'positive' of that is that trade BoP is 'in our favour' for that issue, mainly for 1 country (Germany) though! and Germany could well be 'consoled' by the possibility/likelihood of a massive boost to its Financial area!

There is another positive, in that whatever happens after a 'no deal' withdrawal - hopefully under the Prime Ministership of BJ - such a withdrawal being clean and clear - we will know exactly who to thank...and I suggest that that won't include any who voted to remain - yer Remoaners. A 'no deal' withdrawal on 31/10 will be exactly the same withdrawal as a 'no deal' withdrawal had that happened on 24th June 2016 - or indeed 29th March 2019 - and it seems to be what many believe they voted for (where was the word 'deal' on the voting paper? they ask). The only difference being that on 31/10 the country, business, industry, finance and all services should be in a better position to manage the withdrawal than they would have been on any earlier date. I look forward to it.

 

[Dando]

There is another positive, in that whatever happens after a 'no deal' withdrawal - hopefully under the Prime Ministership of BJ - we will know exactly who to thank...and that won't include any who voted to remain. A 'no deal' withdrawal on 31/10 will be exactly the same withdrawal as a 'no deal' withdrawal had that happened on 24th June 2016 - or indeed 29th March 2019. The only difference being that on 31/10 the country, business, industry, finance and all services should be in a better position to manage the withdrawal than they would have been on any earlier date. I look forward to it.

Change the bloody record

 

[MegaSteve]

She was 'easy pickings' for Neil, merely used as a 'platform' to voice his own opinions! He may as well have interviewed me!

Of course she was teed up isn't that how most political commentary works?

Neil was spot on 👍

 

[chrisd]

Of course she was teed up isn't that how most political commentary works?

Neil was spot on 👍

And if it wasnt true she would have argued so

 

[Old Skier]

Silly? Trolling? Well I might suggest all should understand the context - because if you understand anything about Northern Ireland you will understand what No Surrender means and the political sensitivities and bigotry associated with it. However, if what you say is true - and I strongly suspect that to be the case - then that rather explains the casual insouciance and irritation many Leave voters express in respect of the NI/EU border issues and the 'Good Friday' Agreement.

Words matter so why were these specific words used in the post in the context they were (see also Widdecombe in her 'speech' yesterday - in the same 90secs of rant talking of slavery and oppression in the same breath as the EU and leaving - as thereby creating the association in the minds of those susceptible and inclined to look for it)

In both cases - one obviously far more important than the other - the words used were unnecessary to make the point.

I fully understand everything about what is and has gone on in the past, far better than you, and it's people just like you that live in the past and continue to raise and highlight such stupid and ludicrous statements that keeps the issues alive.

I'm a leaver and I don't need you to educate me on any matters.

 

[spongebob59]

Just seen this clip too :

https://twitter.com/x/status/1147137537418436608

 

[SocketRocket]

The use of the word 'democracy' above is simply wrong!

Parliamentarians - and their right to vote however they deem appropriate - is how UK's version of democracy works! They may be 'not respecting the result of the referendum', but that's a completely different issue.

I disagree. Not respecting the referendum is anti democratic in my opinion. They had pledged to respect it and didn't.

 

[spongebob59]

https://www.politico.eu/article/ursula-von-der-leyen-biography-career-inconvenient-truth/

 

[Foxholer]

I disagree. Not respecting the referendum is anti democratic in my opinion. They had pledged to respect it and didn't.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but can you please show me where they committed to do that?

Btw. It's STILL not 'undemocratic' - at least not in UK's version of 'democracy'! As that's how (UK's version of) democracy works! But you are entitled to believe whatever you wish, however misguided/erroneous - something that is an absolute pillar of democracy (imo!).

 

[Foxholer]

Change the bloody record

And it/s time you took you blinkers off!