Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Blue in Munich]

de Gaulle was a long time ago when there were 6 member states and before freedom of movement, there are currently 28 member states with loads of EU people happy to come and live work here and vice versa so no wouldn't accept that at all. Anything to make a case for leaving? Clutching at straws imo.

It's been well known that we are tolerated like an in-law rather than being one of the family for some time, and Pieman, who deals with them face to face experiences the same thing. So no straw clutching, not anything to make a case for leaving, just the way it is.

 

[Tashyboy]

Someone here just made a great follow-up comment to the view of the SNP leader in the Commons. Imagine the Scottish Independence vote had been 52% in favour of leaving and after a year of discussions in Parliament, no agreement had been reached. Would their view have been "OK we can't agree so let's just forget the whole thing"

Answers on a postcard to the usual address.

Over to Doon for that one.

 

[Tashyboy]

Just outta interest, Missis May is trying to sort out a deal to put through the HOP. But isn't it the point that the EU said " this is the only deal you are getting". Yet Missis May insists she has another deal 🤔 Or is it the EU deal that was rejected, but tarted up in a differant language.

 

[patricks148]

Just outta interest, Missis May is trying to sort out a deal to put through the HOP. But isn't it the point that the EU said " this is the only deal you are getting". Yet Missis May insists she has another deal 🤔 Or is it the EU deal that was rejected, but tarted up in a differant language.

i thought you weren't posting anymore??

 

[Tashyboy]

Guy Verhofstadt has just issued a tweet citing Putin at the root of the dissent against Europe. Arrogant knob!

But his own propaganda machine is working, we've got people here talking about potential shortages of bog-roll rather than Federalism!

Shortage of bog rolls, that's why the good Lord God created " Dot leaves". 👍 Au natural.

 

[Tashyboy]

i thought you weren't posting anymore??

i thought you weren't posting anymore??

Getting me inspiration from our politicians, 👍Say one thing do, the opposite. Seems to be working quite well. Grand bunch them lot are. Just wish we could have a vote to let them know how appreciated they are.


Hang on back in a bit.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Well I might well be in Cambodia at the moment - typing this from my hotel room in Phnom Penh to be precise - but I made sure that I had my daughter sorted to vote for me by proxy. And so Lib Dem’s got my vote in SE England region.

Well done Hogie...….the dream ticket is Greens in Wales. Lib Dems in England Sinn Fein in NI and SNP in Scotland
I am afraid that the Farage followers will win in England and Trump the UK.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Over to Doon for that one.

Post 9769...…….said it more sensibly than I could.

 

[Kellfire]

Well done Hogie...….the dream ticket is Greens in Wales. Lib Dems in England Sinn Fein in NI and SNP in Scotland
I am afraid that the Farage followers will win in England and Trump the UK.

Alliance in NI!

 

[chrisd]

Luckily that's all it is - a dream 👍

 

[drdel]

But the 'us and them' approach is very much alive and well in the EU directed towards the UK! Has been for a long time and always when we've tried to be the voice of reason in EU negotiations. In my first hand experience it's actually worse coming from the EU!

But there you go, as long as the younger generation are happy that's the main thing (actually all I've ever known is being in the EU - been offered numerous opportunities to work in Brussels - so still class myself as being part of that generation). Will be generally interested to know how many of them are keen to go off and live and work in Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria and the poorer Member States where wages etc aren't as good as the UK.

Totally my experience.

Its my conclusion that many (if not most) net takers are only hoping the UK will provide help, mostly money. The UK's reputation around the world has provided a 'halo' effect for many EU members. In my experience of submitting projects/research cases to the EU, the UK is seen as a source of cash. They see the UK as successful so we don't need to receive support like organisations from other countries.

The direct result it that the 'internal' market has slowly been distorted against the UK. While UK has honoured rules preventing national governments 'giving' subsidised investments other members have been happy to still 'give' cash to the corporations (France and their car industry, aerospace and energy are just a few examples.

Germany has grown on the basis of manufacturing: but the new world can produce this stuff cheaper so Germany will struggle in the future and it will not be able to subsidise the rest of the EU.

The future economics of the EU is going to be very uncertain which is why they are desperate to keep the UK as a cash cow.

 

[Tashyboy]

Totally my experience.

Its my conclusion that many (if not most) net takers are only hoping the UK will provide help, mostly money. The UK's reputation around the world has provided a 'halo' effect for many EU members. In my experience of submitting projects/research cases to the EU, the UK is seen as a source of cash. They see the UK as successful so we don't need to receive support like organisations from other countries.

The direct result it that the 'internal' market has slowly been distorted against the UK. While UK has honoured rules preventing national governments 'giving' subsidised investments other members have been happy to still 'give' cash to the corporations (France and their car industry, aerospace and energy are just a few examples.

Germany has grown on the basis of manufacturing: but the new world can produce this stuff cheaper so Germany will struggle in the future and it will not be able to subsidise the rest of the EU.

The future economics of the EU is going to be very uncertain which is why they are desperate to keep the UK as a cash cow.

A very good written and thought provoking post, however it will be wasted on 48% of the electorate because it don't fit in with there way of thinking. 👍

 

[Leftie]

Totally my experience.

Its my conclusion that many (if not most) net takers are only hoping the UK will provide help, mostly money. The UK's reputation around the world has provided a 'halo' effect for many EU members. In my experience of submitting projects/research cases to the EU, the UK is seen as a source of cash. They see the UK as successful so we don't need to receive support like organisations from other countries.

The direct result it that the 'internal' market has slowly been distorted against the UK. While UK has honoured rules preventing national governments 'giving' subsidised investments other members have been happy to still 'give' cash to the corporations (France and their car industry, aerospace and energy are just a few examples.

Germany has grown on the basis of manufacturing: but the new world can produce this stuff cheaper so Germany will struggle in the future and it will not be able to subsidise the rest of the EU.

The future economics of the EU is going to be very uncertain which is why they are desperate to keep the UK as a cash cow.

And that (plus the creeping federalism) is exactly why I voted leave. No. Not immigration. Not slogans on buses. Just selfishness (according to some )

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well done Hogie...….the dream ticket is Greens in Wales. Lib Dems in England Sinn Fein in NI and SNP in Scotland
I am afraid that the Farage followers will win in England and Trump the UK.

You know Doon having not posted anything here for nearly four months it’s really dispiriting and rather sad that when I post something on my voting yesterday the first and immediate responses I get from the camp of the usual suspects are as sneeringly and condescendingly dismissive as they were to my posting four months ago. How sad.

 

[ColchesterFC]

You know Doon having not posted anything here for nearly four months it’s really dispiriting and rather sad that when I post something on my voting yesterday the first and immediate responses I get from the camp of the usual suspects are as sneeringly and condescendingly dismissive as they were to my posting four months ago. How sad.

I think that you're being a bit over sensitive Hogie. I read the two replies your post got as being aimed at the Lib Dems not at you.

It's also a bit rich for an ardent Remainer to be complaining about about people being "sneeringly and condescendingly dismissive" when many Leave voters have spent the last three years being sneeringly and condescendingly dismissed as racists, thickos or bigots who didn't understand what they voted for by people such as yourself.

 

[chrisd]

I think that you're being a bit over sensitive Hogie. I read the two replies your post got as being aimed at the Lib Dems not at you.

It's also a bit rich for an ardent Remainer to be complaining about about people being "sneeringly and condescendingly dismissive" when many Leave voters have spent the last three years being sneeringly and condescendingly dismissed as racists, thickos or bigots who didn't understand what they voted for by people such as yourself.

Let's not allow the truth get in the way of a good rant.👍

 

[jp5]

I see Mrs May is resigning.

I look forward to our vote on who the next Prime Minister leading us out of the EU should be.

We don't want to be one of those unelected bureaucracies now, do we.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I know it was a fishing trip but...we never vote for a PM, we vote for a local MP. TM is leader of a political party, who replaces her is for those in that party. That person will at least have been voted for by their local constituents so they are democratically elected. Too many seem to confuse being PM with being a President.

Has there been a worse PM than TM? I thought Major and Brown would be the worst in my lifetime but she has surpassed them quite comfortably. Totally insular, refused to listen to her cabinet, her mp's. the wider public. She ploughed on with a single policy that was destined to fail and didn't have the skills to change course. The rest of her leadership, anyone remember anything she has done that was worthwhile?

 

[jp5]

It's a damning indictment of our democracy that a group of 100,000 people will decide the direction of our country. Whenever a PM resigns, independent of their party, by default there should be a General Election.

Agree on your points on TM though. Completely hypocritical of her to cite compromise in her leaving speech when she spent years avoiding it. Will be the same issues with her successor. For the sake of progress I hope it's a hard Leaver just to move things along. There's other issues in this country we need to talk about.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It's a damning indictment of our democracy that a group of 100,000 people will decide the direction of our country. Whenever a PM resigns, independent of their party, by default there should be a General Election.

Agree on your points on TM though. Completely hypocritical of her to cite compromise in her leaving speech when she spent years avoiding it. Will be the same issues with her successor. For the sake of progress I hope it's a hard Leaver just to move things along. There's other issues in this country we need to talk about.

This with knobs on . She is talking compromise now purely because she has failed to bully people to back her. She ignored what people were telling her, put out a dreadful deal, ran the clock down, saw her cabinet leave in droves and still can't seem to understand why people wont back her