Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Hobbit]

So can someone explain what the hell is going on at the moment? Heard the deal was tweaked and something about the UK not splitting and also something about a second referendum?

The deal hasn't been tweaked at all. As per the EU's statements the deal will not be reopened. What May is proposing is that if the deal is passed the Tories will create legislation in Parliament that places into law EU employment laws and environmental laws. And if passed, a second referendum, the confirmatory vote.

Its a fudge, and her words carry as much wait as the political declaration from the EU. Its a "promise" which could easily be reversed.

 

[ColchesterFC]

to honest Phil, I don't think anyone has a Scooby about what's going on

I'm working out in Denmark at the minute and today had lunch with 2 Danish and 4 German colleagues. The conversation eventually got round to Brexit and I was asked what was happening. All I could do was shrug and respond with "I've got no idea, and I think that goes for almost everyone else in the UK as well".

 

[Foxholer]

Sadly no, because MPs are too spineless to call a second referendum to fix this mess we're in.

Sadly, you are proposing action that I am fundamentally against - and which many of the Leave advocates on here have criricised THE EU for (invalidly imo). That is re-running referendums until te 'correct' result is obtained!

There was more than sufficient warning that it was a 'once in a generation choice'

As a complete aside, during my search for the above vid, I found this one and couldn't agree, with what I watched, much more! The right wing press has far too much influence imo!

 

[robinthehood]

Sadly, you are proposing action that I am fundamentally against - and which many of the Leave advocates on here have criricised THE EU for (invalidly imo). That is re-running referendums until te 'correct' result is obtained!

There was more than sufficient warning that it was a 'once in a generation choice'

As a complete aside, during my search for the above vid, I found this one and couldn't agree, with what I watched, much more! The right wing press has far too much influence imo!

Is that like covfefe...

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Let's look at it from a remainers point of view - we're trying to do the best for the general public including the vast majority of brexiteers. We believe the vote to leave will materially harm society on the whole. Why wouldn't we do everything to do the best for everyone?

Because you are not entitled "to do everything". A vote, the referendum, was made and you, if you are democratic and not morally bankrupt, are obliged to accept it.
But maybe voting results are unacceptable to you. Or just the ones you agree with.

 

[Foxholer]

Read here, this rebuffs a lot of the things that are being said about the Treaty but still imo confirms changes over the next few years that the UK will be adversely affected by being in the UK

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong/

A classic 'own goal' post if ever I saw one! There's SO much in there where the first sentence of the rebuttal is 'This is False'! the few clauses where the claim has been decreed reasonable/correct have actually been in place for years, with no noticeable issue (imo)!

 

[Foxholer]

Is that like covfefe...

Probly!

 

[Beezerk]

Andrea Leadsom resigns 🤔

 

[robinthehood]

Andrea Leadsom resigns 🤔

Shame she hasn't quit as an MP. No doubt she'll be back with bojo

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Surely TM has to go by Friday now. Apparently Leadsom was the 36th resignation from her cabinet. That must be a record.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Will anything actually change if she does resign ? What difference will it make - Johnson won’t do anything - hasn’t got the guts

 

[ColchesterFC]

Will anything actually change if she does resign ? What difference will it make - Johnson won’t do anything - hasn’t got the guts

I'm not sure it matters who is in charge. The EU have said that the Withdrawal Agreement can't be renegotiated and the HOC have made clear that No Deal won't be allowed to happen. That either leaves us with the current dog turd of a deal or revoking Article 50.

Does anyone know the process that would have to be followed to revoke Article 50? What I mean is, can the PM be forced to revoke Article 50 by the HOC? Or could a die-hard Brexiteer get voted in as PM and simply ignore what Parliament wants and let us leave with No Deal by default on 31st October?

 

[User62651]

I'm not sure it matters who is in charge. The EU have said that the Withdrawal Agreement can't be renegotiated and the HOC have made clear that No Deal won't be allowed to happen. That either leaves us with the current dog turd of a deal or revoking Article 50.

Does anyone know the process that would have to be followed to revoke Article 50? What I mean is, can the PM be forced to revoke Article 50 by the HOC? Or could a die-hard Brexiteer get voted in as PM and simply ignore what Parliament wants and let us leave with No Deal by default on 31st October?

Not 100% on this but I think the whole Gina Millar case was settled in court that Govt had to let Commons have the final say on the leaving agreement or else May would've forced through her unpopular deal as an executive decision some time ago. So no a new PM can't do that (ignore parliament), needs Commons agreement by majority. With a hung parliament very difficult ........ as May has found out.
Saying that if we get to Oct31 with no change to where we are now and EU say no more extensions then maybe we will be forced out with No Deal, must come a time EU will say enough's enough. In that case EU has kicked us out rather than us opting to leave with No Deal. Suppose a new Brexiteer PM may try and Brexit like that, run clock down and make EU kick us out.

 

[robinthehood]

Maybe Boris will be the man who cancels brexit .

 

[ColchesterFC]

Not 100% on this but I think the whole Gina Millar case was settled in court that Govt had to let Commons have the final say on the leaving agreement or else May would've forced through her unpopular deal as an executive decision some time ago. So no a new PM can't do that (ignore parliament), needs Commons agreement by majority. With a hung parliament very difficult ........ as May has found out.
Saying that if we get to Oct31 with no change to where we are now and EU say no more extensions then maybe we will be forced out with No Deal, must come a time EU will say enough's enough. In that case EU has kicked us out rather than us opting to leave with No Deal. Suppose a new Brexiteer PM may try and Brexit like that, run clock down and make EU kick us out.

I saw a story today that Macron had said that Brexit has to be settled by 31st October one way or another and that he will block any further extensions. That could of course be political posturing or could be the start of the EU countries signalling that they've had enough of us. Even if we were to revoke Article 50 I don't think that we'd be welcomed back with open arms. Yes, the EU might want us to remain, but that has surely got more to do with our financial contributions than anything else. As a nation we've never really embraced the idea of EU membership.

 

[Blue in Munich]

I saw a story today that Macron had said that Brexit has to be settled by 31st October one way or another and that he will block any further extensions. That could of course be political posturing or could be the start of the EU countries signalling that they've had enough of us. Even if we were to revoke Article 50 I don't think that we'd be welcomed back with open arms. Yes, the EU might want us to remain, but that has surely got more to do with our financial contributions than anything else. As a nation we've never really embraced the idea of EU membership.

To be fair, has the EU ever really embraced us as members? de Gaulle never wanted us, and their actions since the Referendum have done little to endear us to them.

 

[User62651]

To be fair, has the EU ever really embraced us as members? de Gaulle never wanted us, and their actions since the Referendum have done little to endear us to them.

de Gaulle was a long time ago when there were 6 member states and before freedom of movement, there are currently 28 member states with loads of EU people happy to come and live work here and vice versa so no wouldn't accept that at all. Anything to make a case for leaving? Clutching at straws imo.

 

[Deleted member 18645]

For my sins and I apologise, I watched PMQs yesterday. And I was just stunned by the gall of the clown who represents the SNP in that charade.

His view is because Parliament cannot enforce the democratic will of the people, Brexit should be cancelled. Which of course follows on from wanting a vote on Scottish Independence, losing it, so therefore wanting another one.

He really doesn't quite get the word "democracy" does he?

 

[Hobbit]

For my sins and I apologise, I watched PMQs yesterday. And I was just stunned by the gall of the clown who represents the SNP in that charade.

His view is because Parliament cannot enforce the democratic will of the people, Brexit should be cancelled. Which of course follows on from wanting a vote on Scottish Independence, losing it, so therefore wanting another one.

He really doesn't quite get the word "democracy" does he?

I was stunned by how empty the Tory benches were, including a number of notable absentees from the front benches. Surely she must realise she’s well past her sell by date.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

de Gaulle was a long time ago when there were 6 member states and before freedom of movement, there are currently 28 member states with loads of EU people happy to come and live work here and vice versa so no wouldn't accept that at all. Anything to make a case for leaving? Clutching at straws imo.

After the Referendum result I went over to Brussels as per usual to a number of meetings with the Commission and other Member States - was told by plenty of them in the margins "well, the UK has never really been seen as true Europeans and fully bought into the European project".

The one major reason why the EU wants us to stay ££££. The first meeting I attended that was actually the first question from the Romanian delegate "who's going to make up the UK contribution to x when they leave the EU".