Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Hobbit]

But I do not recall much discussion at all about not re-engaging with the EU after we had left. The electorate DID NOT vote to leave and not re-engage - they voted to leave the EU and I suspect most expected some form of re-engagement. But the snake-oil salesmen have convinced a large part of the electorate with their weasel words. And that is - in my opinion - disgraceful, and May is right to be standing up to these charlatans, chancers and ideologues.

I seem to remember lots of discussions about continued trade, tariffs, free ports, Norway deals, Canada deals.

I haven’t come across any Leaver that voted with their eyes closed. The snake oil salesmen have used what words, have convinced them of what?

As as for the charlatans etc, all I see are politicians standing up for what they believe, and in some cases having more courage than May when it comes to telling the EU to negotiate in good faith.

Your interpretation is a bit extreme to say the least. The sky isn’t going to fall down.

 

[Old Skier]

Barnier has also said its essential that the UK is part of the law/security group. 3 weeks ago he was saying the UK will be excluded from this group.

Hes sobered up since then and remembered that the largest intelligence gathering facility in Europe is in ------- the U.K.

 

[SocketRocket]

Ok. To simplify things.

If you two were going into this negotiation. Just a simple 1 session negotiation meeting. No nationalistic pride. It's not the UK vs the EU. It's one company vs another. Which side would you prefer to be on?

Mine

I would prefer to be negotiating for the side that was breaking away from a group that was squeezing it dry and imposing protectionist rules that were stifling them from trading freely.

 

[Hobbit]

Barnier just gets worse. After saying that to continue trade with the EU the UK must adopt common rules and practices. Now he’s saying it isn’t practical.

Goal posts moved yet again.

 

[Dando]

Barnier just gets worse. After saying that to continue trade with the EU the UK must adopt common rules and practices. Now he’s saying it isn’t practical.

Goal posts moved yet again.

I’m sure a certain someone will be along soon to say it’s the UK’s fault and not the EU’s

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I see some rent a mouth London Labour MP is calling for people to vote in a second referendum [EU naturally]

Makes you wonder who/what voted in the first one.

 

[Old Skier]

I see some rent a mouth London Labour MP is calling for people to vote in a second referendum [EU naturally]

Makes you wonder who/what voted in the first one.

No self respecting real politician would ask for a second referendum after the public have voted. Oh, hang on, perhaps the MP is closet SNP.

 

[bluewolf]

Mine

I would prefer to be negotiating for the side that was breaking away from a group that was squeezing it dry and imposing protectionist rules that were stifling them from trading freely.

I suspect that we're about to see how strong our negotiating position is. Once the German elections are out of the way, May will be negotiating our terms. If you're right then there should be a favourable outcome (fingers crossed). If you're wrong then I predict May will stage a "storm out" of the negotiations, leaving us no option but WTO rules. The Tories will then absolve themselves of all blame and claim EU intransigence.

 

[Sweep]

All negotiations the EU are involved in always go down to the wire and sometimes go beyond their arbitrary deadline. We should not expect these negotiations to be resolved until the last minute at the earliest.

 

[drdel]

I don't understand the fear of WTO rules.

About 80% of our trade is under WTO with RoW and some of our trade with EU would be at better terms than currently imposed !!

 

[Hobbit]

I don't understand the fear of WTO rules.

About 80% of our trade is under WTO with RoW and some of our trade with EU would be at better terms than currently imposed !!

Totally agree.

98% of global trade is done under wto rules. 20 countries are currently joining the 160 countries who trade under wto rules.

As a trading organisation it is 6xtimes larger than the EU.

The UK is already a member of the wto, and contributes just over £7m towards an operating budget of £195m.

 

[bluewolf]

I don't understand the fear of WTO rules.

About 80% of our trade is under WTO with RoW and some of our trade with EU would be at better terms than currently imposed !!

http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128

Very very few countries in the World trade solely under WTO rules. Why is that?

 

[IanM]

http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128

Very very few countries in the World trade solely under WTO rules. Why is that?

They are either members of other associations or have individual agreements in place with the other country.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And so - a poll in the Sunday Times suggests that about a quarter of the electorate would vote for an Anti-immigration. Anti-Islam party. Well I may be wrong - but I suspect that most of that constituency would have voted Leave - and so that's just under half of the Leave vote would support a party that had, some might suggest, a slightly racist grounding. Well I never - who'd have thunk that....

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...-far-right-boris-johnson-and-remain-sh5n8vchq

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I seem to remember lots of discussions about continued trade, tariffs, free ports, Norway deals, Canada deals.

I haven’t come across any Leaver that voted with their eyes closed. The snake oil salesmen have used what words, have convinced them of what?

As as for the charlatans etc, all I see are politicians standing up for what they believe, and in some cases having more courage than May when it comes to telling the EU to negotiate in good faith.

Your interpretation is a bit extreme to say the least. The sky isn’t going to fall down.

Pity more than one ex-Prime Minister thinks No Deal would be catastrophic for the country and most especially those least able to withstand the hit...with a 16% fall in the GDP of the North East (sorry - I have to quote expert assessment as see no point in quoting wishful thinking)

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/brexit-leave-north-east-worst-14261127

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Barnier just gets worse. After saying that to continue trade with the EU the UK must adopt common rules and practices. Now he’s saying it isn’t practical.

Goal posts moved yet again.

Or maybe it's just that the UK is not very good at knowing where the goal posts are and even when we do our shooting is wonky...

 

[IanM]

Love your stuff SLH... it's like the old uncle sat in the armchair at Xmas .....last 3 items, as ever are classics

1) Leaving the EU is somehow "racist"
2) Former "staunchly pro EU Federalism" Prime Ministers saying "Brexit is Bad" is somehow a shock or informs the debate
3) The EU is always right and the UK is always wrong stance again privides the usual ho ho moments.... Mrs May knows exactly what she is doing, maybe that's the problem!

Keep it up!

 

[Hobbit]

Or maybe it's just that the UK is not very good at knowing where the goal posts are and even when we do our shooting is wonky...

As as usual you totally twist what’s in front of you.

The Barnier said, not 3 weeks ago, that the UK can’t be part of the EU security organisation, and now he’s saying it’s essential that the UK are part of that organisation. Since forever he has been saying that the UK must adopt EU regs for trade, and now he’s saying the opposite.

What part of that is the UK getting it wrong? Go on, I dare you to be honest and admit that those are the things the EU have been saying, and have now done an about face on. I dare you to be honest.... truthfully I don’t think you are open minded enough to admit it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Love your stuff SLH... it's like the old uncle sat in the armchair at Xmas .....last 3 items, as ever are classics

1) Leaving the EU is somehow "racist"
2) Former "staunchly pro EU Federalism" Prime Ministers saying "Brexit is Bad" is somehow a shock or informs the debate
3) The EU is always right and the UK is always wrong stance again privides the usual ho ho moments.... Mrs May knows exactly what she is doing, maybe that's the problem!

Keep it up!

1) Well that's your interpretation - it's not what I said. I'll repeat - 24% would vote for an anti-immigration, anti-Islam party - for some these would be seen together as verging on racist basis for a political party. I suggest that almost all of the 24% would have voted to Leave. 24% is almost half of the 52% who voted to Leave.

2) Well - I'd say their view on a No Deal might just hold more water than those from a guy who has made a load of money selling beer in the UK, and another who sells electronic goods.

3) The EU has stated it's position in respect of the four freedoms and what they mean from Day 1 - the UK government does not have an agreed position

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As as usual you totally twist what’s in front of you.

The Barnier said, not 3 weeks ago, that the UK can’t be part of the EU security organisation, and now he’s saying it’s essential that the UK are part of that organisation. Since forever he has been saying that the UK must adopt EU regs for trade, and now he’s saying the opposite.

What part of that is the UK getting it wrong? Go on, I dare you to be honest and admit that those are the things the EU have been saying, and have now done an about face on. I dare you to be honest.... truthfully I don’t think you are open minded enough to admit it.

We can all change our mind or adjust our position during a negotiation - if that is what Barnier has done - it's called negotiation I thought