Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[drdel]

While I respect your arguments, I do wish that, especially as (apparently) an unelected bureaucrat yourself, you'd stop referring to the EU equivalents as simply unelected! The process by which key EU personnel are appointed is actually, imo, more 'democratic' than the likes of UK Public Servants are appointed! It's simply a 'different' type of democracy!

To reply to your points - from a marginal Remain voter who has moved to be a marginal to serious Leave one....

'Centralisation' or even marginal 'Federalisation' seems reasonable to me in certain areas, but only up to a certain point! I'm not happy about plans for an EU Army...it's not necessary!

Greece was (is?) a basket case that should have been sorted significantly earlier! It's a BIG problem, but seems to be being handled reasonably well/diplomatically - which includes innuendos, half-truths and outright lies that 'diplomacy' is all about!

To reply to your points - from a marginal Remain voter who has moved to be a marginal to serious Leave one....

'Centralisation' or even marginal 'Federalisation' seems reasonable to me in certain areas, but only up to a certain point! I'm not happy about plans for an EU Army...it's not necessary!

Greece was (is?) a basket case that should have been sorted significantly earlier! It's a BIG problem, but seems to be being handled reasonably well/diplomatically - which includes innuendos, half-truths and outright lies that 'diplomacy' is all about!

Not something I can really comment on, but they seem to have served UK fairly well!

Economies constantly fluctuate relative to each other..that's the nature of economies!

Twaddle!!! But I concur with your concerns.

Examples required! There is likely no more (or less!) likelihood for security/data sharing breaches across EU than within UK - which is neither a comfort, nor something to really be obsessed about imo.

Illegal Immigration into EU, therefore potentially UK, is a huge problem! UK is not the worst affected! Immigration within the EU IS managed, if not necessarily as some would like!

Can't really comment, but I expect the same approach applies in every appointment anywhere (including yours) - appointers are looking for candidates likely to have the 'desired' approach wanted for the particular role.

That'll be insulting to the 48% (now minus me) who voted Remain then! And to your fellow (or maybe superior!) bureaucrats! Both unworthy of you imo!

Btw. This item is worth reading to dispel some of the 'unelected' hysteria! https://www.economist.com/the-econo...efer-to-eu-officials-as-unelected-bureaucrats[/QUOTE]

FWiW while I have been a Company Chairman, held a few Directorships, a business consultant etc. but apart from a 6month secondment many decades ago I ain't been a civil servant/bureaucrat !!

 

[Foxholer]

FWiW while I have been a Company Chairman, held a few Directorships, a business consultant etc. but apart from a 6month secondment many decades ago I ain't been a civil servant/bureaucrat !!

Thanks for the clarification!

Peculiarly, apart from 'Company Chairman' my experience could be described similarlly, though my (NZ) Civil Service period was somewhat longer - 16 years.

 

[harpo_72]

And for the third time you still haven't acknowledged that the UK exports £400bn worth of goods. Remember your throwaway line of the UK has nowt to offer in the global market. Still avoiding it? You still haven't acknowledged what a difference the UK could make by changing/dropping tariffs and quotas nor what a reduction in corporation tax will do... but the streets of London will be lawless

I wonder why the Spanish train manufacturer has recently announced it will be opening a factory in Fife, or that Siemens has announced it will extend its facility in Hull to the tune of £10m? Oh that's right, because the UK would be stupid place to invest....

It has been .. less than 30% of physical goods, of which there is less than 1% of food stuffs, the rest is or requires imports to finish .. so in reality you have over exaggerated or missed the reality.
The sad thing about brexit is it’s based on flawed assumptions or the actual depth of what is happening in the economy is glossed over. Had it not been it would have the correct thing to do, a bit selfish but Good for the UK.

 

[Tashyboy]

It has been .. less than 30% of physical goods, of which there is less than 1% of food stuffs, the rest is or requires imports to finish .. so in reality you have over exaggerated or missed the reality.
The sad thing about brexit is it’s based on flawed assumptions or the actual depth of what is happening in the economy is glossed over. Had it not been it would have the correct thing to do, a bit selfish but Good for the UK.

It's a bit hard to export more than 1% of food goods when the French are knicking most of your fish from British seas. 👍

 

[Foxholer]

And for the third time you still haven't acknowledged that the UK exports £400bn worth of goods. Remember your throwaway line of the UK has nowt to offer in the global market. Still avoiding it? You still haven't acknowledged what a difference the UK could make by changing/dropping tariffs and quotas nor what a reduction in corporation tax will do... but the streets of London will be lawless

I wonder why the Spanish train manufacturer has recently announced it will be opening a factory in Fife, or that Siemens has announced it will extend its facility in Hull to the tune of £10m? Oh that's right, because the UK would be stupid place to invest....

Well, given that about 45% of UK exports are to the EU, they are actually in danger of being SUBJECT to tariffs/quotas! If not perhaps losing the manufacturing base to the EU of many of the companies involved. Not sure where you got that 400Bn from btw!

I strongly suspect that the Spanish train manufacturer is expecting significant sales from UK Rail companies/HS2 and that there were a lot of 'hidden/boundary pushing' incentives involved - as there likely to be in many countries!

 

[Hobbit]

It has been .. less than 30% of physical goods, of which there is less than 1% of food stuffs, the rest is or requires imports to finish .. so in reality you have over exaggerated or missed the reality.
The sad thing about brexit is it’s based on flawed assumptions or the actual depth of what is happening in the economy is glossed over. Had it not been it would have the correct thing to do, a bit selfish but Good for the UK.

The reality is you have for the 4th time failed to acknowledge that the UK exports over £400bn worth of goods. Pretty much every country in the world imports raw materials and part finished components that go into products. Whether the part comes from within the UK or from outside the UK it is still part of the cost of manufacturing, just as it is around the world.

The bottom line is the UK exports £400bn worth of goods. Remind me again... the UK has nothing of note that anyone wants. Yeah, right. Only £400bn worth of goods.

 

[harpo_72]

The reality is you have for the 4th time failed to acknowledge that the UK exports over £400bn worth of goods. Pretty much every country in the world imports raw materials and part finished components that go into products. Whether the part comes from within the UK or from outside the UK it is still part of the cost of manufacturing, just as it is around the world.

The bottom line is the UK exports £400bn worth of goods. Remind me again... the UK has nothing of note that anyone wants. Yeah, right. Only £400bn worth of goods.

Break your £400bn .. down which goods did you have in mind?

 

[Reemul]

Break your £400bn .. down which goods did you have in mind?

I have to say you points do nothing for you and reading them makes me think you don't know what you are talking about and are another one of those, here is a statistic I read somewhere so will post it as it must be true. You then get challenged and slopey shoulders swings in to action. Best you bow out now imo

 

[ColchesterFC]

Break your £400bn .. down which goods did you have in mind?

Here you go, knock yourself out.........

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281807/largest-export-commodities-of-the-united-kingdom-uk/

http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com/top-UK-exports.html

 

[Foxholer]

The bottom line is the UK exports £400bn worth of goods. Remind me again... the UK has nothing of note that anyone wants. Yeah, right. Only £400bn worth of goods.

Can you please point to a reference for the £400Bn of exports?

Oh and a split between EU and non-EU would be nice too!

 

[harpo_72]

I have to say you points do nothing for you and reading them makes me think you don't know what you are talking about and are another one of those, here is a statistic I read somewhere so will post it as it must be true. You then get challenged and slopey shoulders swings in to action. Best you bow out now imo

Gosh that’s a compelling argument, i’ll Hop it now.

 

[harpo_72]

Here you go, knock yourself out.........

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281807/largest-export-commodities-of-the-united-kingdom-uk/

http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com/top-UK-exports.html

Thank you, car numbers second highest, they will reduce, not sure about the machinery or electrical stuff but pretty sure cost to produce will go up.
But looking through it all, I am even more convinced we are not ready for a hard brexit ..
I am sure I will get the back lash for having those opinions based on data as opposed to the “I said so” brigade.
I’ll take my leave on this thread now and Colchester thanks for the stats.

 

[SocketRocket]

Thank you, car numbers second highest, they will reduce, not sure about the machinery or electrical stuff but pretty sure cost to produce will go up.
But looking through it all, I am even more convinced we are not ready for a hard brexit ..
I am sure I will get the back lash for having those opinions based on data as opposed to the “I said so” brigade.
I’ll take my leave on this thread now and Colchester thanks for the stats.

Yes I think its best you do as that hole is getting rather deep now.

 

[harpo_72]

Yes I think its best you do as that hole is getting rather deep now.

You really are trigger

 

[Hobbit]

Break your £400bn .. down which goods did you have in mind?

Sorry, I forgot that £200bn worth of widgets don't count, and £100bn worth left handed screw drivers don't count either. You really are priceless. You just will not accept that the UK has £400bn of exports, but continue to believe the UK doesn't have anything the rest of the world want. You blew your credibility with the "UK has nothing of note." Apart from the £400bn, which doesn't count.

But seeing has you brought up the parts of products are shipped in, don't forget parts of products are shipped out too. Oh, that's right they don't count too because they are all blue with yellow stars on them.

Its like trying to debate with Hogan. It doesn't matter what facts are put in front of you, you either ignore them for post after post or resort to diminishing them because they're all unicorns.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Its like trying to debate with Hogan. It doesn't matter what facts are put in front of you, you either ignore them for post after post or resort to diminishing them because they're all unicorns.

I think you'll find that our exports of unicorns to the EU are expected to drop by 50% if we leave the EU on Theresa May's agreed deal and by over 95% if we have a hard Brexit and leave with no deal, however if we remain in the Eu exports of unicorns are forecast to increase by 500000000%. And as everyone now requires a link to prove any stats...........

www.imighthavemadethatup.co.uk

 

[Tashyboy]

Here you go, knock yourself out.........

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281807/largest-export-commodities-of-the-united-kingdom-uk/

http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com/top-UK-exports.html

Am missing something here Colch me man. You have been asked to provide figures which some have doubted. You have Shown said figures in black and white. Yet now those figures " could" change and are still not acceptable. It seems that even on this forum facts are not accepted. 😳

 

[User62651]

One stat or fact not mentioned but bound to be denied is that although the UK has the worlds 5th or 6th largest economy, when it comes to standard of living we are way down around 39th or 40th. That suggests we do not look after our own people as it is and wealth is either miss-spent, wasted or is retained by the few or there are too many people for it to to be spread around. Recent UN report and numbers using food banks and numbers of kids in poverty stats and just driving through so many areas of UK would back that up. Just saying as any Brexit will have a negative economic impact and will make it worse for the poor. Messrs Johnson, Rees-Mogg and Gove, Mrs May and the wealthy retired like Dave Cameron will be totally sheltered of course.

 

[Pants]

and wealth is either miss-spent, wasted or is retained by the few or there are too many people for it to to be spread around.

Sounds like several of the reasons the majority voted out

 

[Mudball]

One stat or fact not mentioned but bound to be denied is that although the UK has the worlds 5th or 6th largest economy, when it comes to standard of living we are way down around 39th or 40th. That suggests we do not look after our own people as it is and wealth is either miss-spent, wasted or is retained by the few or there are too many people for it to to be spread around. Recent UN report and numbers using food banks and numbers of kids in poverty stats and just driving through so many areas of UK would back that up. Just saying as any Brexit will have a negative economic impact and will make it worse for the poor. Messrs Johnson, Rees-Mogg and Gove, Mrs May and the wealthy retired like Dave Cameron will be totally sheltered of course.

Brexit or no Brexit.. this is one thing I worry about. Even though (apparently) I am a capitalist living in the south, I don’t understand this blanket notion that the UK is the land of milk and honey. I don’t know if this is the throwback to the empire or ignorance or arragance or mix of all this.

It is easy to fight an ideological battle of in/out when there is money in the bank. As my friend in the south who votes Remain but his family in the North voted Leave says.. those who have not benefited from the economic gains (mostly in the North) voted Leave as they don’t see the benefits of EU while those in the South drive their flashy German cars ..

I m sure I have stepped on many toes so everyone wants to throw a knife .. so go ahead while I exit Left..