Breaking the rules makes you a cheat?

Doon frae Troon said:
The lazy so and so's who play in competitions without basic knowledge of the rules of golf.
Met a few of them in my time.
Maybe not cheats but close to the line.
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Played with a guy in Turkey last year. Nice lad, played off 15.
Par 4 with a lake all the way down the left hand side. He hits a massive great hook off the tee into the water. Tees another ball up and calls it a "provisional".....:confused:
Proceeds to dump that in the lake as well and then decides he is going to take a drop by the waters edge and play 3 from there......sorry mate, you can't do that. I had to explain in full detail why he couldn't but he eventually accepted it. He couldn't get his head around the fact that his second effort wasn't a provisional.
I felt awkward calling it, but how many times in the past had he done the same thing with other guys who didn't call him and put himself down for a point or two on a hole he had no right to???
 
Smiffy said:
Bobmac and I had a 36 hole match at Woburn last year whilst taking part in a Stableford competition. Not once during the 36 holes did we ever get the feeling that we were cheating. 10 months on and I still feel the same.
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That's not cheating as you have agreed to 'not play the Rules of Golf'. You are simply playing a game, on a golf course and applying most RoGs to that game - just like in 'bounce' games.

bobmac said:
You even cheated by getting full h/cap
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Why do you persist with this statement. It's been proven to be wrong!

Here's Congu's note: http://www.congu.com/faqs/appendix F.pdf

Note that the evidence - of thousands of matches - actually indicates that the low handicapper actually has an advantage!

Either desist, add an 'imo' or at least a smilie!
 
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By definition, breaking a rule makes you a cheat.

There is a significant difference between wiping a massive dod of mud from your ball during a winter bounce game with your mates and deliberately telling your marker the wrong score during a medal.
 
It's the deliberate aspect that makes it cheating.
We all break rules from time to time, unwittingly, so we get penalised. Tour Professionals get penalised for incorrect drops on Tour - are they "cheating" - no, they just made a mistake.
If you deliberately break a rule - irrespective of whether an advantage is gained or not - then you sre cheating. Knowing that you have to drop at point A but "deliberately" drop at point B is cheating whether you gain advantage or not. In Bounce game it may not be a problem but in Competition............
 
StrangelyBrown said:
By definition, breaking a rule makes you a cheat.

.
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Surely not ..... Breaking a rule but not applying the correct penatly for doing so is the cheating part .. for instance

if i ground my club in a bunker by mistake im BREAKING A RULE but if i tell my playing partner & apply the penalty surely im NOT cheating
 
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You can fail to follow a rule; you can break a rule; you can cheat. All feel subtly differnet and I think can be viewed by others as being different.
 
bladeplayer said:
Surely not ..... Breaking a rule but not applying the correct penatly for doing so is the cheating part .. for instance
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Imagine if a footballer dives to get a penalty. The referee sees the dive and books the player for simulation.

Is that player still a cheat even though they've been given a yellow card?
 
If the player didnt own up to it yes, He cheated & got caught theres a massive difference ,

same as knowing you did it & not telling your partner in golf, but him seeing you do it & calling it on you ,

if a player dived then stood up and told the referee he dived/fell or wasnt fouled , then he is not a cheat .. take the fa cup the other day (THIS IS NOT A SUAREZ ATTACK..)

In MY opinion he cheated because he handled it and played on & scored , if he had turned around & said to the ref , i handled that ref ,, he still has handled it but penalised himself so therefore in my opinion he was not a cheat ,

even if the ref still gave the goal as per fowlers pen v arsenal years ago
 
bladeplayer said:
If the player didnt own up to it yes, He cheated & got caught theres a massive difference ,

same as knowing you did it & not telling your partner in golf, but him seeing you do it & calling it on you ,

if a player dived then stood up and told the referee he dived/fell or wasnt fouled , then he is not a cheat .. take the fa cup the other day (THIS IS NOT A SUAREZ ATTACK..)

In MY opinion he cheated because he handled it and played on & scored , if he had turned around & said to the ref , i handled that ref ,, he still has handled it but penalised himself so therefore in my opinion he was not a cheat ,

even if the ref still gave the goal as per fowlers pen v arsenal years ago
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Reminds me of Robbie Fowler quite a few years ago against Arsenal, was awarded a penalty after referee had deemed it that Seaman brought him down. Fowler informed ref he hadn't been fouled but gone over after a fair challenge, ref still gave the penalty and Fowler deliberately missed. (got a feeling someone scored from the rebound though) but to me that was proper sporting conduct from fowler
 
I don't play competitively as yet but i have a reputation for being a real stickler for the rules within my little foursome , we play for fun but are competing against each other to a certain extent , they rib me about it , if for instance they tee up an inch or two in front of the markers I tell them about it before they take their shot , I'm not bothered. ( but rules are rules and it's good to know them) . I'd rather not break em but do sometimes to offer my gf a mulligan off the tee or I will kick her ball out of the rough for her or tee her ball up on the fairway . I only want her to enjoy the game this is more important than making her life a nightmare , I stick rigidly to the rules myself . I guess if your breaking rules in competition your only cheating if you gain advantage but its still undesirable
 
JPH said:
I don't play competitively as yet but i have a reputation for being a real stickler for the rules within my little foursome , we play for fun but are competing against each other to a certain extent , they rib me about it , if for instance they tee up an inch or two in front of the markers I tell them about it before they take their shot , I'm not bothered. ( but rules are rules and it's good to know them) . I'd rather not break em but do sometimes to offer my gf a mulligan off the tee or I will kick her ball out of the rough for her or tee her ball up on the fairway . I only want her to enjoy the game this is more important than making her life a nightmare , I stick rigidly to the rules myself . I guess if your breaking rules in competition your only cheating if you gain advantage but its still undesirable
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I should point out that the other two guys in our foursome are happy for me to do this , although they do rib her about it to the extent that she sometimes refuses if I offer her a break on the rules
 
The problem is, who is ever going to say "Well, I was trying to cheat, but now you've caught me I'll admit I was cheating". No-one.

People will always plead ignorance, and say they didn't know it was a penalty / ruling, so we'll never really know.
 
There is a difference in intent and ignorance imo.

I am sure that when learning and playing in the first few competitions we have all (I certainly have) come accross rules that we genuinely didn't know previously and would not have even thought to apply or take a penalty for. But having then been informed of that fact i could never knowingly then repeat it.

I had one last year after playing comps for at least a couple of seasons now. I was on the tree line on a par 5 with my second shot - the next fairway was OOB but my ball lay past the front edge of the tree line but not as far as the back edge (trees are fairly mature and the trunks probably about 12" wide at that point). I was playing with a past captain and memebr of the handicap comittee so called him over for a check . he stated that it was in bounds and playable. I played on and scored decent but didn ot tear up any trees (no pun inteneded) so didn't drop anything on my HC or threaten the winner.

A couple of weeks later there was a statement on the club website clarifying the rule at that point and the front edge of the tree is where the OOB is meant to start - I was OOB but didn't realise.

The past captain even came over the next game and we had a chat about it and laughed - I offered to drop a note the the comittee but he said that as I had a decision on the day and it affected nothing in terms of the winner or handicap it was not worth doing so.

Did I break the rules - yes (in hindsight) - did I cheat - I don't think so as it was totally innocent!

I certainly would declare it OOB if it happened again.
 
Fader said:
Reminds me of Robbie Fowler quite a few years ago against Arsenal, was awarded a penalty after referee had deemed it that Seaman brought him down. Fowler informed ref he hadn't been fouled but gone over after a fair challenge, ref still gave the penalty and Fowler deliberately missed. (got a feeling someone scored from the rebound though) but to me that was proper sporting conduct from fowler
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Yeah best i know it was jason macateer [sp] scored .. there was another incident all be it a sporting one in the lower leagues , guy was passing ball back to oposing keeper after an injury , flew past the keeper into the net , manager told his players to let them score from kick off , the walked it in .. bit different i know but its about how you react to doing wrong sets you apart ..
 
bobmac said:
It was a joke.
:mad:
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Then use a smiley! Otherwise, coming from a Professional, folk might consider it to be as considered/true as things like your guidance on the golf swing.

BTW. Did you read the link? Has it convinced you? I certainly seems to apply to my (unscientific, but 'unbiased') experience.
 
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