Blades vs Cavity Back irons - some questions...

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Is it really easier to "manipulate ball flight" with blades than with cavity back irons? If so, why?

If a manufacturer made a cavity back iron with the same dimensions/offset/sole design etc as a typical blade, would the blade version still be better for those looking to manipulate balls flight? If so, why?

I am trying to understand if there is truly an intrinsic advantage to bladed clubs for better ball strikers, or whether any such differences are - in truth - largely explained by characteristics unrelated to construction eg face size, offset, sole design etc.

Thank you in advance!

 

[BubbaP]

Weight distribution....

But try this
https://pluggedingolf.com/game-improvement-irons-arent-workable-golf-myths-unplugged/

 

[Bwgan]

Mark Crossfield has just done a video on this..
Short answer there is no difference

 

[Imurg]

With the right technique you can hit any ball flight with any club...

 

[Dan2501]

 

[larmen]

I am guessing that a club that is more forgiving is also ‘forgiving’ in a case you are deliberately trying to do something different, making it a little harder to manipulate.

 

[GolfingPastor]

I am guessing that a club that is more forgiving is also ‘forgiving’ in a case you are deliberately trying to do something different, making it a little harder to manipulate.

This ^^^

 

[ScienceBoy]

Blades are for show, cavities are for something that rhymes with show but makes my point.

 

[Crow]

Blades are for show, cavities are for something that rhymes with show but makes my point.

Woe?

 

[robinthehood]

I am guessing that a club that is more forgiving is also ‘forgiving’ in a case you are deliberately trying to do something different, making it a little harder to manipulate.

Doesn't really make sense. If you present the club face the same way with the same path etc and out of of the sweetspot, how does the ball know the difference?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Dumb question but surely a ball will react to the ball flight laws depending on face and path equally whether its a blade of cavity won't it?

 

[Grant85]

Is it really easier to "manipulate ball flight" with blades than with cavity back irons? If so, why?

If a manufacturer made a cavity back iron with the same dimensions/offset/sole design etc as a typical blade, would the blade version still be better for those looking to manipulate balls flight? If so, why?

I am trying to understand if there is truly an intrinsic advantage to bladed clubs for better ball strikers, or whether any such differences are - in truth - largely explained by characteristics unrelated to construction eg face size, offset, sole design etc.

Thank you in advance!

Here's my theory about blades v cavity back irons.

Cavity back irons are primarily designed to help people launch the ball higher into the air to get optimum ball flight and distance for an 'low to average' swing speed.

Someone with a fast swing speed would put cavity back irons into orbit. This is the main reason pros use blades.

There is also a benefit from a bigger margin for error in terms of ball strike with cavity backs, due to perimeter weighting and a larger sweet spot than blades.

I think ultimately the choice of clubs should be down to swing speed and quality of ball strike rather than if you want to start finessing draws or fades. You can certainly hit a draw or a fade with a cavity back mid to long iron no problem.

 

[Orikoru]

It's been discussed on here many times, so my 'laymans' understanding is:

• cavity backs launch the ball more easily, so for higher handicappers that makes it nice and easy to get the ball airborne, but for a lower guy who hits it consistently, they may find it harder to judge distance with them as they actually fly too far occasionally.
• perimeter weighting in the cavity backs helps the high handicapper because shots out of the toe or heel still fly a reasonably distance. For the lower guys this perimeter weighting is unnecessary as they'll be hitting it out of the centre anyway, and probably only serves to create a 'trampoline' effect, which as above could launch the ball further than expected and be hard to judge.
• I'm not really sure about shaping the ball - in theory any club should fade the ball if you play a fade with it, etc, but perhaps a GI club that's designed to be forgiving against slicing or hooking the ball, might also by extension be harder to fade or draw the ball? Not sure on that one. This might not be the case.

While lots of people will choose their irons based on the above, plenty will just play blades as soon as they're able because they think they look nicer, and nicer looking clubs can potentially increase your confidence in hitting them.

 

[GasMan]

Dumb question but surely a ball will react to the ball flight laws depending on face and path equally whether its a blade of cavity won't it?

In the proximity of the sweetspot yes, more towards the perimeter no.

Blades react far more consistently for curvature across the face. You get more punished with distance and trajectory for straying away from the sweetspot.

I actually find cavity backs easier to work controllably if the club head is small enough. Unfortunately I also find that anything beyond a “player’s cavity” means I put the ball into orbit. I also find I hit blades and muscle cavity backs consistently longer.

What I don’t get is the bull about playing blades to work the ball. How often to do you ever intend to move an iron more than 10 yards? You can move the ball 5 yards either way dead easy with either blades or cavities.

Playing blades and muscle cavities is about trajectory and distance control/consistency. If you play on a course with no wind and soft, receptive greens, there’s no necessity for the benefits provided by blades. If you play on the South Downs with firm greens from April to November, you can’t hit low spin moon balls and score.

 

[USER1999]

I find offset is a bigger issue than the blade / cavity one.

 

[Slab]

In my mind I’ve always thought that cavity backs are general purpose clubs while blades are specialists

Blades are designed to be hit out the sweet spot (with max performance) and that's what all the effort goes into when making them
CB’s are designed to be hit all over the face (well nearly) and that will involve a compromise in performance of sorts at the top end of what any iron can do when hit from the sweet spot

Take the hybrid club, it’s a general purpose combination of a long iron and fairway wood (a compromise of two clubs) Both the fairway wood and the iron will outperform the hybrid at their individual specialist tasks but the general purpose aspect of the hybrid means it works for those of us unable to achieve those individual specialist shots anyway

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Interesting stuff. Thank you!

My take is that when we refer to "blades" we implicitly include other characteristics - notably small clubhead size, low offset and demanding sole grinds - that could be replicated in cavity-back clubs.

The converse probably holds. Many cavity-back clubs have design features - low CoG placement, larger clubhead size, offset - that could be replicated in bladed clubs.

I don't want a club that is designed to produce a high flying low spinning ball. And if I want more distance, I'll just go up a club - I don't care about the number on the sole.

So I would like a cavity back club (because the benefits of perimeter weighting for imperfect connections feel real to me) but with a small clubhead, low/no offset, a traditional CoG and traditional lofts.

Does such a club exist?

 

[USER1999]

Yes, Cobra King CB, which I have on order, Titleist CB, and so on.

 

[USER1999]

Mizuno JPX tour are another one.

 

[davemc1]

I have the w/s v6. These are not blades, but marked as players clubs.

They superseded the Callaway apex, which arnt SGI but certainly GI

I couldn’t get the Callaway 5+6 irons off the floor. I don’t have that problem with the Wilsons, and even use the 4 from time to time.

Main difference for me, the Callaways had s300s and the Wilsons have r300s

But then MC reckons that shaft doesn’t matter either. Go figure...