Black, White, Yellow - which for you?

[HomerJSimpson]

Isn't this where everyone is different. It really pee's me off to be unable to reach with a drive & an iron holes where I could previously play that way. And I think a lot of "championship" courses are just not designed for the majority of golfers. What's the point of that?

I see it as part of the challenge. Most of the 400-430 yard par fours are reachable and it's about whether I fancy the challenge. In a roll up, green fee paying game, then why not have a go. If it's a comp then the risk v reward has to be considered more carefully. Even if the wind blows and holes are out of reach in two then the skill is how well I can lay up and produce a suitable shot on from there to give myself a par chance. I'll usually get a shot anyway at this type of hole

 

[ManinBlack]

I see it as part of the challenge. Most of the 400-430 yard par fours are reachable and it's about whether I fancy the challenge. In a roll up, green fee paying game, then why not have a go. If it's a comp then the risk v reward has to be considered more carefully. Even if the wind blows and holes are out of reach in two then the skill is how well I can lay up and produce a suitable shot on from there to give myself a par chance. I'll usually get a shot anyway at this type of hole

Without wanting to sound condescending it's different, I think, for someone who has played to a higher level when younger (don't know whether you did HJS). I was off 5 before marriage, children and, finally, old age conspired to knacker my game and I hit it a long way. I often say to friends who have taken the game up late in life "it's all right for you, you're playing the best golf you've ever played. I'll never be able to say that now" By playing off forward tees I know I'm just kidding myself but, who cares, I still think it's the best game in the world to play into advanced old age.

 

[scottbrown]

Backs for me. I always feel cheated when forced to play forward. Feels like I haven't played the course as it was designed.

 

[CMAC]

I want to play the course the way the Architect designed it, and that's from the back tees.

I'll play from other tees but the best test is from the back. One day I wont even be able to see the back tees from the old doddery tees I'll be forced to play off but until that day, bring it on!

 

[ManinBlack]

Backs for me. I always feel cheated when forced to play forward. Feels like I haven't played the course as it was designed.

Even if it was designed for someone who hits it 50 yards further than you?

 

[GB72]

I am not a big hitter so I tend to have more fun playing off the yellow tees. If a hole has a risk/reward option then I want to be able to try the shot rather than lay up because I do not hit a drive far enough from the back tees. I do not want to make a course easy but with my ability I feel I have more chance of playing the course as it was intended off the yellow tees. That said, I know that all comps at my home course are off the back tees so I wish I could practice off them more

 

[Nosevi]

Even if it was designed for someone who hits it 50 yards further than you?

Some were designed quite a bit shorter than they are now and have been lengthened so not sure if you're really cheated too much off tees that are more the length that the course was actually designed at anyway, or at least closer to the length it was designed at. That's what I would tell myself .......

Said I'd let you guess but as everyone else has said, personally I'd go from the championship tees. But then that suits my game so why not? The 440 odd yard par 4s aren't an issue length wise as yet. How would I feel when they are? Not sure but think I'd prefer to play the game firing at greens in reg rather than laying up and using shots given by handicap to get there. I could tell myself the par 4s are par 5s to me but not sure if I'd like that as much. I'll let you know in a few years

 

[Hacker Khan]

Whatever makes the course the most enjoyable for me, which is mostly the yellows. But it depends on how much difference there is between yellows and whites.

And any decent course will have been designed to offer some challenge from all tees to some extent. So to say you will only get enjoyment and play the course it was designed to be from the back tees is a bit silly to me. But hey ho, other views are available.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I want to play the course the way the Architect designed it, and that's from the back tees.

I'll play from other tees but the best test is from the back. One day I wont even be able to see the back tees from the old doddery tees I'll be forced to play off but until that day, bring it on!

But a great deal of courses have changed since the original architect designed it

Mainly by adding in tees further back to increase the length

 

[Nosevi]

I feel I have more chance of playing the course as it was intended off the yellow tees.

Think that would be the crux of it for me. It works both ways as well - on a Championship course if you're out of range of every fairway bunker off the back tees, then lay up in between them and the green, then pitch on, you're not really taking on the challenges that make it a Championship course (just my opinion obviously). If you play from a tee that brings all this potential trouble into force so you have to make layup in front of the bunkers or take them on sort of judgements, play the course as designed if you like, you're sort of competing against the course as it was designed to be played.

All of this is just my opinion of course but I see nothing wrong with picking a tee that keeps the game interesting but allows you to play it 'in regulation' if you like.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Distance doesn't always make the course harder - a shorter course can also bring in it's dangers as can playing from "non championship" tees

 

[Ethan]

Don't think I would want to play Bearwood Lakes off the blacks. In fact I am sure as I wouldn't reach many fairways.

Well, I can comment on that. On most holes, the blacks are 10-20 yards further back and on the same line, but on a few holes, it makes a bigger difference.

The 1st black tee is about 40 yards back and on a slightly greater angle to the right, making the hole look slightly left to right. This means that the landing area changes from 'can I get past the bunkers' to 'can I keep it on the fairway between the bunkers'.

The 7th changes considerably. This is a tough par 4 off the whites, 412 dog leg right to left up a hill to a slopey green. From the whites the tee shot looks like it comes out of the chute of trees, but from the blacks it looks like the trees close in, and they are about 40 yards further back, so almost everyone needs timber for their second up the hill.

The 9th, par 3, normally about 165 over water now becomes 194 over water.

The 11th is a better hole off the blacks, in my opinion. This changes a par 5 straight over water and up a hill to a right to left tee shot over a much deeper expanse of water. Most of the effect is visual, but a nervous slicer will consider it much more difficult.

14th, par 3 signature hole over water extends from 155 to 175.

Black tees, 6850 yards, SSS 72, whites 6488 yards, SSS 71. CSS often rises 2 on the main black tee medals of the year. White CSS usually stays the same or rises 1.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Well, I can comment on that. On most holes, the blacks are 10-20 yards further back and on the same line, but on a few holes, it makes a bigger difference.

The 1st black tee is about 40 yards back and on a slightly greater angle to the right, making the hole look slightly left to right. This means that the landing area changes from 'can I get past the bunkers' to 'can I keep it on the fairway between the bunkers'.

The 7th changes considerably. This is a tough par 4 off the whites, 412 dog leg right to left up a hill to a slopey green. From the whites the tee shot looks like it comes out of the chute of trees, but from the blacks it looks like the trees close in, and they are about 40 yards further back, so almost everyone needs timber for their second up the hill.

The 9th, par 3, normally about 165 over water now becomes 194 over water.

The 11th is a better hole off the blacks, in my opinion. This changes a par 5 straight over water and up a hill to a right to left tee shot over a much deeper expanse of water. Most of the effect is visual, but a nervous slicer will consider it much more difficult.

14th, par 3 signature hole over water extends from 155 to 175.

Black tees, 6850 yards, SSS 72, whites 6488 yards, SSS 71. CSS often rises 2 on the main black tee medals of the year. White CSS usually stays the same or rises 1.

Thanks for the long and detailed response. The 7th and 9th would be real round changers for me off the blacks and I take the point about the 1st and how a change of angle can really make the hole look and feel so different

 

[Wayman]

Depends on yards on each tee.

Would prefer playing right off the backs tho

 

[Foxholer]

I want to play the course the way the Architect designed it, and that's from the back tees.

With all due respect, that's Rubbish!

If he/she was a proper Architect, he/she would have known that not all Golfers are Cat 1s! So he/she would have provided tees that give the same (or as close as possible to) test on each hole!

Play off the tees that are appropriate for your level of play and conditions on the day! The idea is to enjoy the round (however challenging) without being beaten up by the selected course! I'm happy to play whichever course is appropriate for the day, be it from the Black/Green, White or Yellow. I tend to prefer Whites, as that tends to give sufficient challenge without over-stretching me - I'm not particularly keen on taking Driver, or laying up, on more than a couple of Par 3s!

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

With all due respect, that's Rubbish!

If he/she was a proper Architect, he/she would have known that not all Golfers are Cat 1s! So he/she would have provided tees that give the same (or as close as possible to) test on each hole!

Play off the tees that are appropriate for your level of play and conditions on the day! The idea is to enjoy the round (however challenging) without being beaten up by the selected course! I'm happy to play whichever course is appropriate for the day, be it from the Black/Green, White or Yellow. I tend to prefer Whites, as that tends to give sufficient challenge without over-stretching me - I'm not particularly keen on taking Driver, or laying up, on more than a couple of Par 3s!

Interesting, have there been any prominent female course designers? I would like to think there were a fair few in the big 90's expansion, but haven't seen any names anywhere?

 

[richart]

Well, I can comment on that. On most holes, the blacks are 10-20 yards further back and on the same line, but on a few holes, it makes a bigger difference.

The 1st black tee is about 40 yards back and on a slightly greater angle to the right, making the hole look slightly left to right. This means that the landing area changes from 'can I get past the bunkers' to 'can I keep it on the fairway between the bunkers'.

The 7th changes considerably. This is a tough par 4 off the whites, 412 dog leg right to left up a hill to a slopey green. From the whites the tee shot looks like it comes out of the chute of trees, but from the blacks it looks like the trees close in, and they are about 40 yards further back, so almost everyone needs timber for their second up the hill.

The 9th, par 3, normally about 165 over water now becomes 194 over water.

The 11th is a better hole off the blacks, in my opinion. This changes a par 5 straight over water and up a hill to a right to left tee shot over a much deeper expanse of water. Most of the effect is visual, but a nervous slicer will consider it much more difficult.

14th, par 3 signature hole over water extends from 155 to 175.

Black tees, 6850 yards, SSS 72, whites 6488 yards, SSS 71. CSS often rises 2 on the main black tee medals of the year. White CSS usually stays the same or rises 1.

I agree the 11th is a better hole off the black tee, though the new fairway bunkers are well out of my range. Out of my range off the whites as well. Not keen on the black tee on 7, and seem to remember we had three balls in the trees on the right, and one left. No doubt Slasher Nash made a par.

 

[Sweep]

I've read this a few times and don't get it!?

I'm not too bothered, will play any course off any tees and still enjoy it.

I have heard this as well and I think what chrisd means is quite hard to explain, but...
If the average tour pro drives it say 300 and the average amateur 210, that's 90 yards difference on one shot. Taken over say 15 holes that adds up to 1350 yards. If you then add that if a tour pro wants to hit 150 he may hit a 9 iron and an amateur say a 6 or 7, I heard that in total it amounts to almost 2000 yards on a round. In other words for a tour pro to experience the same level of difficulty an average golfer experiences in a round, he would have to play a course around 2000 yards longer. In fact he probably plays courses maybe 1,000 yards longer, so in effect even though the pro is playing longer courses the level of difficulty he is experiencing relative to his ability is much easier. To even this up the amateur should play a shorter course, possibly the yellows or even less. An interesting theory. I am not sure I subscribe to it, but interesting nonetheless.
Clearly, there is a belief that the difficulty of the game is a factor in its decline. We would all probably accept that it is the hardest game we have ever played and it takes a long time and a fair bit of dedication to get to a decent standard. Hence the suggestions that we make it easier on ourselves.

 

[Ando2600]

Felt compelled to post - am a newbie so hope that's ok... a few weeks ago, 4 of us went to the Torrance at st Andrews. It was freezing and blowing a hooly, and it looked like rain. I was lowest hcp (13) and wanted to play the yellows, but the rest (16+ hcps) felt it had to be the whites. The difference is about 450 yards I think (6250 / 6700). We went with the majority and it was a 4.5h slog in the rain with even decent drives needing a layup into the wind. We can all hit it a fair way too. Point is that on that day on that course the yellows were definitely the tees for us!

 

[Region3]

The year we had horrific weather at the Woodhall Spa forum meet the starter advised us to play off the green tees (only just longer than the reds), which we did, and it was one of the most enjoyable rounds I've ever had (once we got past the first 3 holes and the horizontal rain stopped shot blasting our faces!).

In normal conditions I'd much rather play from the back tees as I feel it challenges my all round game more. Unless the holes are extremely well designed I can get bored playing a succession of drive/short iron holes.

Generally speaking, I'd say play the tees that make you use the most clubs. Endless fairway woods and long irons into greens is just as bad as endless wedges imo.