Basic rules knowledge

[rosecott]

Played in a Seniors’ match yesterday and had a bit of a rules disagreement – a pretty friendly one as he thought he was doing me a favour. One of the opponents was a very experienced golfer – a good 11 handicap who, from his chat, played here, there and everywhere. I had a wayward drive which quite clearly went into very long grass under a hedge. We found the ball and I proceeded to measure 2 clublengths which brought me out of the long grass by about 18 inches. The guy says “you can drop it out further than that, it’s 2 clublengths from the edge of the grass”. I, of course, said “No, it’s 2 clublengths from where the ball lies”.He says “No, it’s 2 clublengths from the edge of the hazard”. When I said it’s a hedge, not a hazard, he shrugged his shoulders and, from his body language, he clearly thought I was mad and didn’t know the rules.
Anyone got other examples of good players who should know the basic rules a bit better than they do?

 

[North Mimms]

There are loads of more intricate rules that I don't know, but have a fair idea how to look them up, but everyone should know the most basic rules as covered in the short "Quick Guide to the Rules" which i carry in my score card holder and encourage others to do the same.

A lot of players get mixed up between what you do for a hazard and what you do for an unplayable lie.
I've known players to insist...

Red water hazard ditch.
Measure 2 clubs lengths from where ball lies, not from edge of hazard. Wrong.
Where ball crosses edge of hazard is not where you calculate the drop from, it's 90 degrees from where ball ends up ????
Wrong

Ball in hedge
Measure 2 club lengths not nearer hole from "edge of hedge" whatever that is! Wrong.

Ball in hedge
Drop back as far as you like (so far so good) on the line the ball entered hedge. Wrong.

And I've given up asking how people want the flag when they are just off the green, as i invariably get the answer "i'm off the green".
Yup, I know you are, but in, out or tended?

 

[AmandaJR]

In my rather limited experience the golfers who know the rules inside and out (and are adamant about it) usually don't know them at all. It seems there are lots of myths and hand-me-downs that do the rounds and people learn the rules from people who act like they know them.

I have spent many a happy hour and long bath perusing the rule book although usually more the Illustrated Rules or Decisions on Rules type publication which puts it in plain English and easier to understand. Then, when confronted with a ruling I am unsure about I will refer to the rulebook I carry with me and if still unsure ask on here when I get home. I never ever let a doubt about a ruling remain so and from that I find I learn and remember the more obscure ones.

I do find them fascinating (anorak alert) but also think it important to have a good understanding of them as I play this game and it is self-regulating in the main.

One thing I struggle with though - 1 shot or 2 shot penalty. Is there any logic/easy way to remember those??

 

[Colin L]

Broadly, if you

a) do something accidentally or involuntarily like moving your ball, hitting the ball more than once, deflecting your ball

b) get yourself out of trouble like a water hazard, unplayable lie, a lost ball

c) get something wrong when you lift, drop, place or replace your ball

it's one stroke.

That is a summarised crib from Barry Rhodes's very helpful analysis
http://www.barryrhodes.com/2009/07/is-it-one-stroke-or-two-stroke-penalty.html

And it's easy to remember that one stroke penalties are common to match play and stroke play while a 2 stroke penalty in stroke play equates to loss of hole in matchplay.

 

[North Mimms]

Broadly, if you

a) do something accidentally or involuntarily like moving your ball, hitting the ball more than once, deflecting your ball

b) get yourself out of trouble like a water hazard, unplayable lie, a lost ball

c) get something wrong when you lift, drop, place or replace your ball

it's one stroke.

That is a summarised crib from Barry Rhodes's very helpful analysis
http://www.barryrhodes.com/2009/07/is-it-one-stroke-or-two-stroke-penalty.html

And it's easy to remember that one stroke penalties are common to match play and stroke play while a 2 stroke penalty in stroke play equates to loss of hole in matchplay.

Didn't know that's how it worked!
Thanks for that rule.

 

[duncan mackie]

One thing I struggle with though - 1 shot or 2 shot penalty. Is there any logic/easy way to remember those??

not really

they are also continuing to rationalise some of these so it's always dangerous to think you have it sorted! example would be ball striking your own equipment

whilst I would reckon to know them I still use the book on the course - as explained before.

 

[duncan mackie]

Broadly, if you

a) do something accidentally or involuntarily like moving your ball, hitting the ball more than once, deflecting your ball

b) get yourself out of trouble like a water hazard, unplayable lie, a lost ball

c) get something wrong when you lift, drop, place or replace your ball

it's one stroke.

That is a summarised crib from Barry Rhodes's very helpful analysis
http://www.barryrhodes.com/2009/07/is-it-one-stroke-or-two-stroke-penalty.html

And it's easy to remember that one stroke penalties are common to match play and stroke play while a 2 stroke penalty in stroke play equates to loss of hole in matchplay.

dangerous -

so you

accidentally move your ball and don't replace it.....

move your marker to one side on the green, then forget to put it back, and putt before realising it - remember so pick up the ball and put it back in the 'right place' before putting out.....

 

[Colin L]

Agreed you have to be careful but it works quite well as long as you think of single actions e.g. I accidentally move my ball - 1 stroke.

I didn't mention the converse that you can think of purposeful actions leading to a 2 stroke penalty. If I fail to replace a moved ball, that's a separate and purposeful action (or rather lack of action!) which means 2 PS. And ok, you have to know that supersedes the 1 stroke but the basic rule of thumb isn't bad.

Not moving the marker back and getting 2PS for playing from a wrong place fits - it's the outcome of a deliberate action. Picking up the ball and replacing it in the "right place" is the same as above - 2 PS for the purposeful breach of not replacing superseding the 1 for the moving of the ball.

As an aide memoire it's not perfect and you have to be careful but I think it can be helpful. Mainly, however, like you I try to remember and check the book to make sure if need be.

 

[the hammer]

If you are off the green, are you allowed to remove debris on the green affecting your line to the flag?

 

[Colin L]

You can remove loose impediments anywhere except when your ball and the impediment are in the same hazard.

 

[rosecott]

If you are off the green, are you allowed to remove debris on the green affecting your line to the flag?

Yes, provided you are still playing the ball you teed off with.

 

[Colin L]

I don't follow that. You can't be suggesting that if I put another ball into play for some reason, I can no longer remove loose impediments, so I am at a bit of a loss as to what you mean.

 

[Foxholer]

Yes, provided you are still playing the ball you teed off with.

What the heck is that all about?!

What happens if I lose that on the second shot?

How many pints hag you had Rosie. That was complete tosh!

 

[Colin L]

How many pints hag you had Rosie. That was complete tosh!

"I am at a bit of a loss as to what you mean" = "That was complete tosh"

Maybe once I get to know you guys better, I can stop being polite and be as direct as that.

 

[scottbrown]

There is a really good quiz on the R&A website that poses various scenarios and can be set at easy, medium or hard. Good way of learning as you go.

 

[rosecott]

If you are off the green, are you allowed to remove debris on the green affecting your line to the flag?

Yes, provided you are still playing the ball you teed off with.

I don't follow that. You can't be suggesting that if I put another ball into play for some reason, I can no longer remove loose impediments, so I am at a bit of a loss as to what you mean.

What the heck is that all about?!

What happens if I lose that on the second shot?

How many pints hag you had Rosie. That was complete tosh!

"I am at a bit of a loss as to what you mean" = "That was complete tosh"

Maybe once I get to know you guys better, I can stop being polite and be as direct as that.

Sorry guys, there was red wine involved in a weak and convoluted attempt at humour. The poster - the hammer - had inadvertently confessed on another thread yesterday that he teed off with one make of ball and changed it when he got to the green.

I promise not to do it again.

 

[Colin L]

Dangerous stuff, red wine:whoo:

I like it now I've got the context.

 

[duncan mackie]

Sorry guys, there was red wine involved ..............

I promise not to do it again.

I would hate anyone to make such a promise on my behalf.....

 

[North Mimms]

Another basic rule confusion that rears its head at least once every couple of rounds is someone "declaring their ball lost"

You can declare a ball unplayable anytime (as long as it's not in a water hazard), even if it's sitting pretty in the middle of fairway, but surely it's only"lost" when either you fail to find it or you put another ball into play instead of it?

 

[Colin L]

surely it's only"lost" when either you fail to find it or you put another ball into play instead of it?

......... there being a few situations where you can put another ball into play and render your ball lost - see the Definition of "Lost Ball" - none of which as you rightly say includes declaring it lost.