I understood the ball wasnt lost until 5 mins searching were up, even if you dont look for it your playing partner could still find it even though you have played your provisional?
is that correct?
Basic rules knowledge
- Thread starter rosecott
- Start date
I understood the ball wasnt lost until 5 mins searching were up, even if you dont look for it your playing partner could still find it even though you have played your provisional?
is that correct?
Whereditgo
Journeyman Pro
Or until you play your provisional from a place beyond where the original is likely to be.
North Mimms
Tour Winner
If you have declared a provisional ball, like it and decide not to look for your first ball, yes it can still be found by someone else within 5 minutes and it is then the ball in play unless you have hit the provo again from beyond where the 1st lies.
If you don't want that "lost" ball to be found, play 3 off the tee and make it clear that you are NOT playing a provo, you are putting a new ball in play.
If first ball is then found sitting in middle of fairway due to a freak bounce out of the long grass, Tough. You have to continue with your 3 off the tee ball.
Experts feel free to correct me if I am wrong!
rosecott
Money List Winner
Here's another, from a guy who claims to be off 14, posted on another golf forum. He insisted that a second provisional from the tee only counted as 4. He admitted his mistake after he went off to check, but thought that 5 off the tee was "a bit harsh".
sev112
Tour Winner
Today's quiz
Anyone know the original meaning of the word "Tosh" as in a "load of old tosh" ?
Anyone know the original meaning of the word "Tosh" as in a "load of old tosh" ?
Colin L
Tour Winner
Now you wouldn't be implying that anyone has been guilty of writing tosh in this thread, would you? 
Foxholer
Blackballed
If he thought that was harsh, how about the guy I played with in a comp a few years ago who's ball hit his bag and went OB (on a Par 3). 5 off the tee! It's changed since - only 3-off tee.
BTW R'cott. The context explains the post -as I figured it might. Dangerous stuff that red wine - I'm just off to have some with my pasta, so might mis-spell 'had' yet again!
Colin L
Tour Winner
4 off the tee, don't you think? One stroke played, one PS for hitting his bag, one PS and distance for OOB so next stroke off the tee is his 4th.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
whilst the 19-2 penalty reduced from 2 shots to 1 shot in 2008 it still adds up to 4 off the tee on my abacus
rosecott
Money List Winner
Now you wouldn't be implying that anyone has been guilty of writing tosh in this thread, would you?
Colin
Could it be that you are languishing in the South of France and veering towards "tosh" for the same reasons that prompted my humble apology?
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
Hmm interesting.
1-4/15 Player Breaches Two Rules with Different Penalties; More Severe Penalty Applied
would seem to suggest that as the 2 penalties were incurred with the same stroke only the more severe (i.e. the stroke and distance for OOB should apply)
But
1-4/12 Player Breaches Rules More Than Once Prior to Stroke; Whether Multiple Penalties Applied indicates that in principle unrelated acts resulting in two Rules being breached result in multiple penalties being applied
and
19-2/2 Player's Ball Strikes Own Caddie and Comes to Rest Out of Bounds
clearly indicates that in that case 2 seperate penalties apply.
I assume therefore that the ball striking the bag and going OB are regarded as seperate acts even though the result of the same stroke.
Interestingly though, ball hitting bag and bouncing off and hitting caddy only attracts a single penalty.
19-2/7 Ball Strikes Player's Golf Bag and Then His Caddie
Gotta love those Rules of Golf
PIng
Head Pro
Saw a programme years ago where people who scavenged through London's sewers in Dickensian times were known as "Tosh men".
Foxholer
Blackballed
While original breach was pre-2008, it was confirmed (not too sure how legitimately) at a rules forum that, post 2008, the 'in equity' application would apply and only the most severe penalty would apply.whilst the 19-2 penalty reduced from 2 shots to 1 shot in 2008 it still adds up to 4 off the tee on my abacus
Colin L
Tour Winner
Decision 19-2/2, as MashieNiblick notes, clearly applies separate penalties for a breach of 19-2 (ball being deflected by the player, caddie or equipment) and for going OOB (27-1b). I suggest the logic here is that you have 2 distinct matters: a) a specific breach of a rule and b) where your ball ends up. Going out of bounds is not a breach of a rule: Rule 27-1b gives us the procedure to follow and a penalty to apply. (A breach of the Rule would be not following the procedure.)
It would be the same in my view if you hit the ball twice and put the ball OOB.
If the ball hits the caddie and then the player's equipment, that is a case of one act resulting in one rule (19-2) being breached more than once so only one penalty is applied (see Decision 1-4/12 Principle 1)
Edit: whatever was said at your forum, Foxholer, Decision 19-2/2 clearly means 4 off the tee.
It would be the same in my view if you hit the ball twice and put the ball OOB.
If the ball hits the caddie and then the player's equipment, that is a case of one act resulting in one rule (19-2) being breached more than once so only one penalty is applied (see Decision 1-4/12 Principle 1)
Edit: whatever was said at your forum, Foxholer, Decision 19-2/2 clearly means 4 off the tee.
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duncan mackie
Money List Winner
the danger of 'rules forums'
as has been highlighted 19-2/2 is crystal clear in this instance
I would also have to point out that "...post 2008, the 'in equity' application would apply and only the most severe penalty would apply." makes absolutely no sense because if that was the ruling the pre-2008 penalty would be the same because 1-4 was in force prior to 2008 as well! All this before getting into what's equity in the rules and whether it's relevant here.
A good example of the concern I raised when this 'new' forum was mooted - the only true confirmations come from directing people to specific rules.
chrisd
Major Champion
I think we would all agree Duncan, but there are always going to be rule queries that are anything but straightforward and you "clued up" guys will go into as much detail as necessary to clarify an issue.
The basic stuff that most of us either know, or think we know, and are regularly asked here, and the merits of hotly debated, are always properly answered in the end if people stick with the thread
Robobum
Money List Winner
If you kept on asking how I wanted the flag whilst I'm off the green it would annoy me pretty quickly. If I want it anything other than left, I'll ask.
North Mimms
Tour Winner
If you kept on asking how I wanted the flag whilst I'm off the green it would annoy me pretty quickly. If I want it anything other than left, I'll ask.
good job we don't play together!:smirk:
Robobum
Money List Winner
Agreed, I like the flag to be removed from 250yds out - can you run up and get it for me, be quick now!
bobmac
Major Champion
Agreed, I like the flag to be removed from 250yds out - can you run up and get it for me, be quick now!
You're never too old to get your legs smacked
