Ball holed but not dropped.

[duncan mackie]

It may not be in play but it is a ball at rest on the green. The rule says nothing about it being in play, simply on the green and at rest.

If the player’s ball in motion hits another ball at rest on the putting green and both balls were on the putting green before the stroke, the player gets the general penalty

The definitions say that it's not a ball at rest on the green for the purposes of that rule because its not a ball in play (because it's holed).

As we clearly disagree I hope you can highlight my error in this simple logic sequence?

 

[mini_me]

Ball has been holed 👍
Ball not in play 👍
No penalty 👍
Simples

 

[rulefan]

The definitions say that it's not a ball at rest on the green for the purposes of that rule because its not a ball in play (because it's holed).

As we clearly disagree I hope you can highlight my error in this simple logic sequence?

Where do the emboldened words appear in the rules?
I should stress I would rather your answer be the right one but cannot find proof.

 

[clubchamp98]

If the ball is holed, it is by definition no longer in play. Surely therefore, despite it being being the size & shape of a golf ball, it is of no more consequence than any other piece of "stuff" which happens to be lying around on the course?

This is my thinking but it should have been made clear.

 

[backwoodsman]

The definitions say that it's not a ball at rest on the green for the purposes of that rule because its not a ball in play (because it's holed).

As we clearly disagree I hope you can highlight my error in this simple logic sequence?

To be fair, I can see the whirring of rulefan's thinking on this one - ie, if an unidentified stray ball is lying on the green, the rules don't seem (now?) to make any distinction between it and a ball in play. But I think we all "know" there is in fact a difference?

 

[Slab]

If the ball is holed, it is by definition no longer in play. Surely therefore, despite it being being the size & shape of a golf ball, it is of no more consequence than any other piece of "stuff" which happens to be lying around on the course?

So we just treat it as a movable obstruction and follow the same process for a players ball hitting one of them on the green

 

[Imurg]

And they tried to make the rules simpler...........

 

[duncan mackie]

As I stated earlier (twice now i think) it is from the definition of "in play", full rules version.

 

[rulefan]

As I stated earlier (twice now i think) it is from the definition of "in play", full rules version.

I agree it is not in play but where in the definition or elsewhere does it say a ball not in play is "not a ball at rest on the green for the purposes of that rule" ?
Neither 11.1b nor 11.1a mention it. I am positing that it is touching the green.

 

[rulefan]

To be fair, I can see the whirring of rulefan's thinking on this one - ie, if an unidentified stray ball is lying on the green, the rules don't seem (now?) to make any distinction between it and a ball in play. But I think we all "know" there is in fact a difference?

Yes. I see the issue also applying to a ball holed, removed and then left on the green. Although lifting the ball may be considered an intervening action.

 

[duncan mackie]

I agree it is not in play but where in the definition or elsewhere does it say a ball not in play is "not a ball at rest on the green for the purposes of that rule" ?
Neither 11.1b nor 11.1a mention it. I am positing that it is touching the green.

Direct quote

"When the Rules refer to a ball at rest or in motion, this means a ball that is in play."

 

[rulefan]

Sorry. I found it a few minutes ago and was going to correct my post but you beat me to it.

Thanks for sorting out my mind.

 

[Colin L]

It may not be in play but it is a ball at rest on the green. The rule says nothing about it being in play, simply on the green and at rest.

If the player’s ball in motion hits another ball at rest on the putting green and both balls were on the putting green before the stroke, the player gets the general penalty

By definition, a ball that is holed is not in play. By definition a ball at rest must be in play. The holed ball consequently cannot be a ball "at rest". It is a movable obstruction and if hit by a ball played from the green, the player must cancel the stroke and replay from the original spot, this time removing the ball from the hole ..... as any sensible golfer would have done in the first place.

 

[rulefan]

Colin
You are a bit late for the party. I recognised my error of omission a few hours ago

 

[Colin L]

Colin
You are a bit late for the party. I recognised my error of omission a few hours ago

For some reason the earlier posts didn't show up when I dropped by to see what was on the go.

 

[clubchamp98]

By definition, a ball that is holed is not in play. By definition a ball at rest must be in play. The holed ball consequently cannot be a ball "at rest". It is a movable obstruction and if hit by a ball played from the green, the player must cancel the stroke and replay from the original spot, this time removing the ball from the hole ..... as any sensible golfer would have done in the first place.

Spoke to guys involved today.
They said both were some distance from the hole so just putted up.
Thanks for the reply .

 

[backwoodsman]

Direct quote

"When the Rules refer to a ball at rest or in motion, this means a ball that is in play."

Duncan, your post accepted & acknowledged - but just for my general info ... from whereabouts did you take that quote?

 

[rulie]

Duncan, your post accepted & acknowledged - but just for my general info ... from whereabouts did you take that quote?

see definition of "in play"

 

[backwoodsman]

see definition of "in play"

Ta.

Comment- I read that definition more than once - and somehow managed to miss that bit every time till now.

 

[rulefan]

Ta.

Comment- I read that definition more than once - and somehow managed to miss that bit every time till now.

et moi (this time yesterday am)