Ball holed but not dropped.

[clubchamp98]

Discussion at the club this morning .
A player putts with flag in and his ball is deemed holed as it’s below the surface.
Pp plays his putt with first ball in hole not fully dropped and strikes this ball.
Is this a penalty or as ball is deemed holed not a penalty.

 

[Imurg]

Don't know the answer but why would anyone do this?
Talk about reducing your chances of holing the ball when 1/4 of the available space is filled with someone else's ball.

 

[clubchamp98]

Don't know the answer but why would anyone do this?
Talk about reducing your chances of holing the ball when 1/4 of the available space is filled with someone else's ball.

Two older guys just having a knock ,asked the pro.
I think if it’s deemed holed it’s no longer on the green so no pen ,but it’s not clear in players guide.
But could be used to gain advantage according to one of them but can’t see how.

Weather shocking so just having a natter on rules in house.

 

[robinthehood]

No it can't be a penalty if the 1st ball is holed.

 

[clubchamp98]

No it can't be a penalty if the 1st ball is holed.

Yes that’s what I said, but the rules never fail to amaze me!

 

[rulefan]

If the player’s ball in motion hits another ball at rest on the putting green and both balls were on the putting green before the stroke, the player gets the general penalty

But is that ball on the green?

 

[drdel]

Discussion at the club this morning .
A player putts with flag in and his ball is deemed holed as it’s below the surface.
Pp plays his putt with first ball in hole not fully dropped and strikes this ball.
Is this a penalty or as ball is deemed holed not a penalty.

Alert "Common sense has left the building!!"

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Surely when the first ball is "holed" it is no longer in play and hence no penalty is incurred by another ball striking it. Only exception might be if it was deemed to be left deliberately to help the second player but as others have said it's unlikely to help.

 

[clubchamp98]

If the player’s ball in motion hits another ball at rest on the putting green and both balls were on the putting green before the stroke, the player gets the general penalty

But is that ball on the green?

I think not
If it hit another ball at the bottom of the hole that’s no penalty .
If ball is deemed holed it’s no longer in play.
That’s what I told them but plenty disagreed.

 

[rulefan]

13.1a says:
A ball is on the putting green when any part of the ball touches the putting green

 

[duncan mackie]

13.1a says:
A ball is on the putting green when any part of the ball touches the putting green

Then again as it's no longer a ball in play does this really matter?

When the rules refer to a ball at rest or in motion, this means a ball in play.

So what rule could any penalty to the second player putting be penalised under?

 

[clubchamp98]

13.1a says:
A ball is on the putting green when any part of the ball touches the putting green

How can it holed and still touching the putting green,
It’s obviouslt touching the lip but part under the surface .
So it’s both ,holed but still on the green????
Another unintended consequence of a unnecessary rule change

 

[duncan mackie]

How can it holed and still touching the putting green,
It’s obviouslt touching the lip but part under the surface .
So it’s both ,holed but still on the green????
Another unintended consequence of a unnecessary rule change

It's not unintended, and it's not both because the definitions cover it as already explained.

 

[rulefan]

Then again as it's no longer a ball in play does this really matter?

When the rules refer to a ball at rest or in motion, this means a ball in play.

Where does it refer to a ball in play

 

[clubchamp98]

It's not unintended, and it's not both because the definitions cover it as already explained.

If it’s touching the lip but part under the surface is it on the green or not?

 

[backwoodsman]

If the ball is holed, it is by definition no longer in play. Surely therefore, despite it being being the size & shape of a golf ball, it is of no more consequence than any other piece of "stuff" which happens to be lying around on the course?

 

[duncan mackie]

If the ball is holed, it is by definition no longer in play. Surely therefore, despite it being being the size & shape of a golf ball, it is of no more consequence than any other piece of "stuff" which happens to be lying around on the course?

Exactly 👍

 

[rulefan]

If the ball is holed, it is by definition no longer in play. Surely therefore, despite it being being the size & shape of a golf ball, it is of no more consequence than any other piece of "stuff" which happens to be lying around on the course?

You may be right but I can't see anywhere that its not being in play affects the rule.

 

[duncan mackie]

Where does it refer to a ball in play

Not absolutely sure what you are asking?

Relevance to original question relates to possible penalty for hitting it with a ball in motion on the putting green.

Reference to what I wrote is in the definition of in play.

 

[rulefan]

Not absolutely sure what you are asking?

Relevance to original question relates to possible penalty for hitting it with a ball in motion on the putting green.

Reference to what I wrote is in the definition of in play.

It may not be in play but it is a ball at rest on the green. The rule says nothing about it being in play, simply on the green and at rest.

If the player’s ball in motion hits another ball at rest on the putting green and both balls were on the putting green before the stroke, the player gets the general penalty