Backstopping

[woofers]

Did anyone hit another ball on the green ?

If you mean did any of the balls played from off the green hit one of the balls on the green, then no.
But one of the players had to hit one of the balls on the green to hole out.

 

[williamalex1]

Is there a penalty for a potential backstop ?

 

[Slab]

So, in a 4 player Texas Scramble, the ball is played from the edge of the putting green. Each player putts close to the hole, but none are marked, the balls are left in place. An 8 shot penalty ?

if I recall the Rules of Golf don't apply to a Texas scramble format. The rules for that comp are whatever the committee make them to be

 

[woofers]

if I recall the Rules of Golf don't apply to a Texas scramble format. The rules for that comp are whatever the committee make them to be

I believe the Texas Scramble format is not recognised by the R&A, but I don’t think you can say the Rules of Golf don’t apply ‘carte blanche’ and players can do pretty much as they like.
Anyway in the scenario I have described, let’s say the Committee agreed that the Rules of Golf did apply, I’m curious to understand that i) rule 15.3a has been breached, ii) would it be a 2 stroke penalty as the ball is being played from the same position each time and is effectively counted as 1 stroke in normal play or iii) an 8 stroke penalty as each of the 4 players has breached the rule.

 

[rulie]

I believe the Texas Scramble format is not recognised by the R&A, but I don’t think you can say the Rules of Golf don’t apply ‘carte blanche’ and players can do pretty much as they like.
Anyway in the scenario I have described, let’s say the Committee agreed that the Rules of Golf did apply, I’m curious to understand that i) rule 15.3a has been breached, ii) would it be a 2 stroke penalty as the ball is being played from the same position each time and is effectively counted as 1 stroke in normal play or iii) an 8 stroke penalty as each of the 4 players has breached the rule.

Are the players in the group considered partners?

 

[woofers]

Are the players in the group considered partners?

I would have thought so, R&A definition of partner is a player who competes together with another player as a side...

 

[Slab]

I believe the Texas Scramble format is not recognised by the R&A, but I don’t think you can say the Rules of Golf don’t apply ‘carte blanche’ and players can do pretty much as they like.
Anyway in the scenario I have described, let’s say the Committee agreed that the Rules of Golf did apply, I’m curious to understand that i) rule 15.3a has been breached, ii) would it be a 2 stroke penalty as the ball is being played from the same position each time and is effectively counted as 1 stroke in normal play or iii) an 8 stroke penalty as each of the 4 players has breached the rule.

Does 'backstopping' under 15.3 even exist if the players are partners and on the same side though?

 

[rulefan]

Does 'backstopping' under 15.3 even exist if the players are partners and on the same side though?

Why would you think it doesn't?
The rule refers to 'a ball on the putting green' and 'another player'.

 

[Slab]

Why would you think it doesn't?
The rule refers to 'a ball on the putting green' and 'another player'.

I'm wondering because they are on the same side/team and are permitted to assist each other in ways that are not permitted in individual stroke play i.e advice

 

[woofers]

I'm wondering because they are on the same side/team and are permitted to assist each other in ways that are not permitted in individual stroke play i.e advice

Perhaps it would help if we quote Rule 15.3a
15.3a
Ball on Putting Green Helping Play
Rule 15.3a applies only to a ball at rest on the putting green, not anywhere else on the course.
If a player reasonably believes that a ball on the putting green might help anyone’s play (such as by serving as a possible backstop near the hole), the player may:

• Mark the spot of the ball and lift it under Rule 13.1b if it is his or her own ball, or if the ball belongs to another player, require the other player to mark the spot and lift the ball (see Rule 14.1).
• The lifted ball must be replaced on its original spot (see Rule 14.2).

In stroke play only:

• A player who is required to lift a ball may play first instead, and
• If two or more players agree to leave a ball in place to help any player, and that player then makes a stroke with the helping ball left in place, each player who made the agreement gets the general penalty (two penalty strokes).

 

[williamalex1]

Is there's a difference between the player MAY and the player MUST ?

 

[rulefan]

Is there's a difference between the player MAY and the player MUST ?

In this rule 'require' is virtually the equivalent of must but which particular situation are you querying?

 

[williamalex1]

In this rule 'require' is virtually the equivalent of must but which particular situation are you querying?

Woofer's post 74. The player May , in a Texas scramble,so why not just say must ?

 

[Slab]

Perhaps it would help if we quote Rule 15.3a
15.3a
Ball on Putting Green Helping Play
Rule 15.3a applies only to a ball at rest on the putting green, not anywhere else on the course.
If a player reasonably believes that a ball on the putting green might help anyone’s play (such as by serving as a possible backstop near the hole), the player may:

• Mark the spot of the ball and lift it under Rule 13.1b if it is his or her own ball, or if the ball belongs to another player, require the other player to mark the spot and lift the ball (see Rule 14.1).
• The lifted ball must be replaced on its original spot (see Rule 14.2).

In stroke play only:

• A player who is required to lift a ball may play first instead, and
• If two or more players agree to leave a ball in place to help any player, and that player then makes a stroke with the helping ball left in place, each player who made the agreement gets the general penalty (two penalty strokes).

Thanks, do you have any knowledge or information on the logic or rational behind the decision to prohibit assistance within a team /side gained through backstoping on a putting green and assistance gained through advice within a team/side on the putting green?

 

[rulie]

Thanks, do you have any knowledge or information on the logic or rational behind the decision to prohibit assistance within a team /side gained through backstoping on a putting green and assistance gained through advice within a team/side on the putting green?

I can only suggest that "two things not the same are different". Learned that in my statistics classes.

 

[Slab]

I can only suggest that "two things not the same are different". Learned that in my statistics classes.

No worries, as often found with the rules of golf... Understanding is not a prerequisite of compliance ?

 

[backwoodsman]

Thanks, do you have any knowledge or information on the logic or rational behind the decision to prohibit assistance within a team /side gained through backstoping on a putting green and assistance gained through advice within a team/side on the putting green?

One way of looking at it is that one (backstopping) is physical assistance that reduces (marginally) the skill necessary in conducting the ball to, and into, the hole. Advice is non-physical and is simply guidance on how best to effect the skill of getting to ball into the hole ?? IMO a fairly significant difference?