Away Club interference

[Poppet102]

It is my understanding that a player’s Home Club is responsible for managing their player’s WHI. Is this correct?
Is there any rule that regulates that an ‘Away’ Club can determine a different WHI, (where a player has joined as an International Member).
Whose responsibility is it to ensure an accurate and correct Handicap is used in a Competition?

 

[D-S]

Your nominated home club has 'control' of your handicap. They, given correct evidence, can adjust your handicap (up or down) if they believe it doesn't properly represent your demonstrated ability.
If your away club has evidence that your handicap does not represent your demonstrated ability, they should give this to your home club for potential review.

 

[KenL]

A bit background would be good.

I don’t understand how the home club can hold the power when you can submit scores for hcp directly with the Scottish Golf (in my case) app and the club doesn’t play any part in the score being processed.

 

[Poppet102]

A bit background would be good.

I don’t understand how the home club can hold the power when you can submit scores for hcp directly with the Scottish Golf (in my case) app and the club doesn’t play any part in the score being processed.

Photograph of correctly completed and signed card sent back to Home Federation with all required data.

 

[KenL]

Photograph of correctly completed and signed card sent back to Home Federation with all required data.

That should be enough, surely?

 

[Poppet102]

That should be enough, surely?

Sorry, I don’t understand your question, enough for what?

 

[KenL]

Sorry, I don’t understand your question, enough for what?

Enough for the score to be accepted.

I thought that was what this thread was about?

 

[Poppet102]

Enough for the score to be accepted.

I thought that was what this thread was about?

Sorry, I have not worded the issue clearly enough. The Home Federation / Club isn’t the issue. The ‘Away’ Club is attempting to insist on controlling an (inaccurate and higher) WHI for the Player.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

The away club cannot control the HI

That will be with the club that’s been deemed the home club

 

[D-S]

The away club cannot control the HI

That will be with the club that’s been deemed the home club

Its straight forward if the home and away club are in the same jurisdiction. When they are from different areas of the world (due to the lack of interoperability) I believe it is not as easy to designate which is the away and which is the home club.

 

[Poppet102]

 

[Poppet102]

Are there other relevant Rules that anyone can point me to?

 

[wjemather]

It is my understanding that a player’s Home Club is responsible for managing their player’s WHI. Is this correct?
Is there any rule that regulates that an ‘Away’ Club can determine a different WHI, (where a player has joined as an International Member).

Players can only have one HI and it is the designated home club that is responsible for maintaining it.
The player and all of their handicap committees' (both home and away) have a responsibility to ensure the players handicap record and HI is accurate. How that is achieved depends on where the clubs are...
Within GB&I, the WHS backend systems are connected, so players have a single merged handicap record with different national ID numbers (formerly CDH number) for each country in which they are a member.
When players hold memberships in unconnected jurisdictions (e.g. England, US, Spain, etc.) things are a little more complicated, as the player will have multiple distinct handicap records that require manual updating by a handicap committee in each jurisdiction; however, all of these committees should know the process to follow to ensure a single accurate HI is maintained.

Whose responsibility is it to ensure an accurate and correct Handicap is used in a Competition?

It is the responsibility of the committee in charge of a competition to determine the Playing Handicap that will be used in their competition, and the responsibility of the player to ensure the competition committee has their current HI and any relevant additional information relating to their handicap (such as a score that has not been posted).

 

[Poppet102]

Players can only have one HI and it is the designated home club that is responsible for maintaining it.
The player and all of their handicap committees' (both home and away) have a responsibility to ensure the players handicap record and HI is accurate. How that is achieved depends on where the clubs are...
Within GB&I, the WHS backend systems are connected, so players have a single merged handicap record with different national ID numbers (formerly CDH number) for each country in which they are a member.
When players hold memberships in unconnected jurisdictions (e.g. England, US, Spain, etc.) things are a little more complicated, as the player will have multiple distinct handicap records that require manual updating by a handicap committee in each jurisdiction; however, all of these committees should know the process to follow to ensure a single accurate HI is maintained.


It is the responsibility of the committee in charge of a competition to determine the Playing Handicap that will be used in their competition, and the responsibility of the player to ensure the competition committee has their current HI and any relevant additional information relating to their handicap (such as a score that has not been posted).

Thank you for this comprehensive response. It agrees with my understanding of the Rules of Handicapping.
What should a player do if the Competition Committee refuse to accept their current HI and want to allocate an inaccurate higher HI?

 

[rosecott]

It's unclear whether both clubs concerned are in the same jurisdiction.

 

[nickjdavis]

Thank you for this comprehensive response. It agrees with my understanding of the Rules of Handicapping.
What should a player do if the Competition Committee refuse to accept their current HI and want to allocate an inaccurate higher HI?

Go out and win the competition and make the CC look stupid.

 

[Swango1980]

Thank you for this comprehensive response. It agrees with my understanding of the Rules of Handicapping.
What should a player do if the Competition Committee refuse to accept their current HI and want to allocate an inaccurate higher HI?

I've perhaps heard of a few Committees going rogue, and making a player play off too low an Index.

But, I'm confused. Why would a Committee refuse a player to play off their current accepted index, and make them use a HIGHER index!???? If the player wins the competition, the Committee are likely to get highly criticised by other players in the field.

Unless we are talking about a player with a very low Index, and the Committee have reason to believe the player manipulated their scoring record to be that low, thus having a false handicap.

 

[Poppet102]

International member would suggest two different countries and jurisdiction, but it is a World Handicap Index. I believe that it is decimal places of difference and making one stroke difference - player receives one stroke more that the accurate HI (each round) depending on the Course played.

 

[jim8flog]

International member would suggest two different countries and jurisdiction, but it is a World Handicap Index. I believe that it is decimal places of difference and making one stroke difference - player receives one stroke more that the accurate HI (each round) depending on the Course played.

Right from the off In the UK we were told that the systems would take some time to integrate each country and until they were it would have to be done manually.

Just to be sure your designated home club should follow the Guidance Rule 1.4b

Are there other relevant Rules that anyone can point me to?

What happens can depend on your length of stay in each jurisdiction

See Guidance on the rules of Handicapping Rule 1 G1.4b/3

 

[IanM]

I have two CDH Numbers.

A Welsh one and an English one. Home course in Wales, Country membership in England.

I can sign into the England Golf App and it has all the same stuff on it.

So, the integration has come on a step, because I wasnt able to do that previously !