Attempted putt on green ?

[williamalex1]

Player on green 4 inches from hole makes a stroke at ball, but only touches it, ball rolls back to original position.
I assume this stroke counts, same as a fresh air shot . ??

 

[2blue]

Player on green 4 inches from hole makes a stroke at ball, but only touches it, ball rolls back to original position.
I assume this stroke counts, same as a fresh air shot . ??

Why wouldn't it??

 

[Bdill93]

Player on green 4 inches from hole makes a stroke at ball, but only touches it, ball rolls back to original position.
I assume this stroke counts, same as a fresh air shot . ??

Testing my rules knowledge here to only be proved wrong im sure....

I think if it was an accident its fine - if it was an intentional stroke then its a stroke.

 

[williamalex1]

Why wouldn't it??

That's why I asked, perhaps he if was distracted by something and tried to pull out of the stroke.

 

[2blue]

Testing my rules knowledge here to only be proved wrong im sure....

I think if it was an accident its fine - if it was an intentional stroke then its a stroke.

williamalex1 said:
Player on green 4 inches from hole makes a stroke at ball, but only touches it, ball rolls back to original position.
I assume this stroke counts, same as a fresh air shot . ??


Clear enough I'd say

 

[williamalex1]

williamalex1 said:
Player on green 4 inches from hole makes a stroke at ball, but only touches it, ball rolls back to original position.
I assume this stroke counts, same as a fresh air shot . ??


Clear enough I'd say

Rule number?

 

[2blue]

Rule number?

10.1

 

[Slab]

Rule number?

I suspect its more the definition of a stroke rather than a Rule, from R&A website below with exceptions, my bold
the scenario described in your post doesn't fit with any exception listed to exclude it from being a stroke

Stroke:

The forward movement of the club made to strike the ball.
But a stroke has not been made if the player:
Decides during the downswing not to strike the ball and avoids doing so by deliberately stopping the clubhead before it reaches the ball or, if unable to stop, by deliberately missing the ball.
Accidentally strikes the ball when making a practice swing or while preparing to make a stroke.
When the Rules refer to "playing a ball," it means the same as making a stroke.
The player's score for a hole or a round is described as a number of "strokes" or "strokes taken," which means both all strokes made and any penalty strokes

 

[Colin L]

Yes. It's better to look to the Definition which makes clear it is the intention to strike the ball that makes a stroke.

 

[Crow]

Interesting question.

One of the recent rule revisions made the accidental movement of the ball on the putting green no longer a penalty, even if it's with the putter.

if the player has decided to abort his putting stroke but still hits the ball then surely this is an accidental movement of the ball, therefore, no penalty.

I wonder if there's a clarification in the rules on this.

 

[Slab]

Interesting question.

One of the recent rule revisions made the accidental movement of the ball on the putting green no longer a penalty, even if it's with the putter.

if the player has decided to abort his putting stroke but still hits the ball then surely this is an accidental movement of the ball, therefore, no penalty.

I wonder if there's a clarification in the rules on this.

The player has only successfully "aborted" the stroke if they don't make contact with the ball, otherwise it's a stroke

And there's no penalty, it's just a (poor) stroke

 

[Crow]

The player has only successfully "aborted" the stroke if they don't make contact with the ball, otherwise it's a stroke

And there's no penalty, it's just a (poor) stroke

The bit in bold, is that the rule? Or have they picked up a penalty for moving the ball?

Can you show me the bit in bold in the rules? I'd say that they've aborted the stroke as soon as they decided to, but failed in not moving the ball.


It's a penalty to move the ball with your club on most of the course, on the putting green it's not.

I think there's a strong argument to be made.

 

[doublebogey7]

The bit in bold, is that the rule? Or have they picked up a penalty for moving the ball?

Can you show me the bit in bold in the rules? I'd say that they've aborted the stroke as soon as they decided to, but failed in not moving the ball.


It's a penalty to move the ball with your club on most of the course, on the putting green it's not.

I think there's a strong argument to be made.

It is part of the definition of "Stroke" Nick.

 

[Steven Rules]

First, there is no mention in #1 about any attempt to abort the stroke. The stroke counts.

The bit in bold, is that the rule? Or have they picked up a penalty for moving the ball?

Can you show me the bit in bold in the rules?

In the hypothetical case of an attempt to abort the stroke - see the definition of Stroke:

Stroke
The forward movement of the club made to strike the ball.
But a stroke has not been made if the player:
Decides during the downswing not to strike the ball and avoids doing so by deliberately stopping the clubhead before it reaches the ball or, if unable to stop, by deliberately missing the ball.

By definition, a stroke is only successfully aborted if a decision is made to abort and the cluhead misses the ball. If the clubhead goes on to hit the ball, regardless of any attempt to abort, it is a stroke - on or off the putting green.

Rule 13.1d(1) and Exception 3 to Rule 9.4b say that there is no penalty if the player accidentally causes the ball to move on the putting green. But the 'failed abort' is no accident. It is, by definition, a stroke - albeit a stroke that our hypothetical player made a bit of effort to avoid.

I'd say that they've aborted the stroke as soon as they decided to,

The intent to abort is only half the requirement. The other half requires that the clubhead misses the ball.

 

[Crow]

Thank you, that clarifies things.

 

[Steven Rules]

I was trawling for something else today and coincidentally came across this from the R&A, which is relevant to this thread.

The R&A

The R&A seeks to engage in and support activities for the benefit of the sport of golf from The Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St Andrews.

www.randa.org