Are these distances killing the game?

[Titleist3]

Hi all,

Just sat here watching The Masters and I don’t know if This has been discussed but don’t you think players are hitting the Ball ridiculously far now.

I remember when hitting a 300 yard drive was huge but it’s basically average distance now.

Are we in danger of soon ruining great courses because these drives are taking huge distances from the length of a hole?

Cheers

 

[Dan2501]

Distance is nowhere near the biggest issue in the game. Lazy course design far more at fault.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Distance is nowhere near the biggest issue in the game. Lazy course design far more at fault.

How does that apply to places like the Old Course for example?

 

[Dan2501]

The Old Course holds up against modern designed courses. The scores are never ridiculously low when The Open is held there.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

The Old Course holds up against modern designed courses. The scores are never ridiculously low when The Open is held there.

Worst winning score in the last 4 opens at St Andrews around 15 under,not exactly tough....

 

[Sweep]

The Old Course holds up against modern designed courses. The scores are never ridiculously low when The Open is held there.

http://www.golf.com/tour-news/2017/...old-course-defeated-todays-ball-and-equipment

As Gary Player said, it took 200 years for the Old Course record to be beaten several times in one week.
Its pretty clear modern equipment is a real issue for the game, especially the ball. There is only so far designers can go in lengthening courses. They have to get creative and stop making distance the be all and end all and make the most of forward tees, dog legs and bunkering etc.
The problem is that it’s not really an issue for the professional game. It’s easy for them to rock up to the iconic courses that have been lengthened time and again and play as usual. The problem is ours, the amateur. Those iconic courses (and other courses who believe to be considered top class they have to be long) are becoming unplayable for someone who can only hit normal distances. People forget, it’s the amateurs that are most important for the game as a whole.
The authorities are walking a tightrope. They know that if they reign the ball in for everyone and make a hard game even harder for the amateur, people will give up in their droves and the game cannot afford that. If they leave the ball as it is, courses will become unplayable for the average player.
As I have said before, I like the Ping CEO’s answer. Have the pro’s play with a reigned in ball and let the amateur continue playing today’s ball. If the pro is “only” getting 300 yards out of his drive, it will only be like it was less than 5 years ago. Pro golf was pretty good then.

 

[Imurg]

How does lengthening a course to accommodate the Pro game affect the amateur golfer who goes to play it?
Putting a teebox another 60 yards back means nothing to you and me as we're going to play from the normal tee that's been there for 100 years..
And, yes, there are more and more courses that are not long enough to host a Pro event and can't expand...I think, these days, it's almost as much about the infrastructure that determines where they are held. Many of the courses that used to host events simply haven't got the space to have all the bits and pieces that go with a tournament....tented village, media centre, parking, food stands etc etc....
The number of courses capable of holding ET tournaments is small. So let them play at the same places - how does that affect the amateur?
When was the last time you heard an amateur golfer moaning that he's hit his drive too far on the 1st at Wentworth....?
In all honesty, very little translates from the Pro game to the amateur game. Apart from the rules there are very few comparisons. Too much is being made of the distance gains, there are ways to combat that without resorting to extra length. Because extra length plays into the hands of those who already hit it a country mile..
Grow the rough and narrow the fairways for the Pros....easily removed when the course opens for amateur play.

 

[bluewolf]

No.

 

[ScienceBoy]

Reading Imurgs post I’m lead to thinking we would need different rules for the pros regarding balls to make an effect and not kill the weekend amateur game.

 

[chrisd]

Reading Imurgs post I’m lead to thinking we would need different rules for the pros regarding balls to make an effect and not kill the weekend amateur game.

I didn't read Imurg's post the same as you. He's saying, that we should just play a shorter course from forward tees and that they should just toughen up the Pro's landing areas to make a long, but inaccurate, tee shot by the Pro's more punishable. This makes more sense to me than having Pro and amateur balls. I don't see our weekend game as being killed by what the Pro's can do at all, after all, that's why they are Pro's- they are the best players.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

So because players are fitter and stronger than they were 30years ago, it is all the balls fault? As much as Rick Shiels delivery annoys me at times, his video on new Golf balls vs old golf balls showed that there wasn’t a huge amount in it.

Club tech has moved on too, but it is still a skill to hit the ball far, and in control. As mentioned above, grow the rough, tighten the fairways. Doesn’t cost anything (or as much as newly developed golf balls) and force pros to hit shorter clubs off the tee...it’s not rocket science. They still wanna hit driver? Fine...but it’s gonna have to be accurate or they are chopping out of deep rubbish

 

[bluewolf]

Should Usain Bolt have been forced to run in Doc Martins as his WR times killed the sport for club sprinters?

 

[jim8flog]

It is not killing the pro game simply because basically they are all doing it and they only competing against each other.

here it is slightly 'killing' the game is in the average club. There are many a younger players hitting the ball the same sort of distances and us older players have to play against them.

It is somewhat reflected in handicaps though. We have just reset our divisions because the number of players with handicaps under 10 is now around 30% of the membership, enough to have their own division.

 

[Crow]

I wasn't going to comment in this thread as I've said my piece often before but hey, who can resist?

In the distant past, distance changed dramatically when the feathery was replaced by the gutty ball and then the gutty was dropped in favour of the haskell. These were single dramatic changes and arms were thrown in the air and there were many calls for them to be outlawed then, they weren't and courses were lengthened to accommodate.

The past 40 or 50 years haven't seen a single massive change but distance creep has been going on continuously during that time.

Woods have gone from being pieces of wood to metal woods, then to large, hollow, light headed metal woods with huge CORs. This was spotted in time and for once the governing bodies did something positive and fixed CORs at 0.83, hence the non-conforming driver lists.
Since COR has been fixed, development has been in placing of weight within the head and optimising shafts etc.

We all know that the ball is longer than previous but perhaps more relevant is the fact that it doesn't have as much side spin on drives and so goes straighter and further.

Irons are the development area of the moment, multiple metals, hollow heads, etc to give higher CORs and improved launch angles, they're also hitting the ball much further than before.

These things have combined to create this creep of the last 40 or 50 years and they help the amateur as well.
Who can hit a decent drive over 250 yards?, what iron do you use for a 150 yard approach?

For me the game we play now is different to that of 50 years ago and many of the traditional classic courses can be played with just a driver, a hybrid a couple of mid irons and a few wedges, but that seems to be what people want.

For me the game doesn't require the same skill that it once did.

The genie is out of the bottle and there's little chance of going back.

 

[Tommo21]

Interesting, As i get older I'm still hitting the ball as far, mainly because of the ball and the equipment. I cant get a 3 or 4 iron as high as years gone by but hybrids do that for me now.

However, I'm lucky enough to play with some really good players and the club champion from Royal Musselburgh, when we had a game at Dunbar a couple of weeks back hit the ball over 300 into a slight breeze. Over the years I've played with big hitters, pros, club champions and such like and that distance just continues to grow.

The stats are more confusing when you consider Driver was used more often in times gone by, where 3 wood, long iron and such like is now taken for that same hole. Short par fours are hit time after time and Looking at distances going back the years we roughly have 10 yards per decade.

Making courses tougher by gowning the rough, bringing in the rough wont stop the length they hit it and it would make some of the courses look silly and it could also make viewing silly by watching the best golfers hacking about in the rough. Championship courses all over the world are being lengthened year on year, even at the masters they cut the fairways all the one way to stop the ball from running as much as possible.

I think the pro ball needs sorted. If the ball was knocked back say 30 yards on driving average then I'm sure we would see more exciting golf.

 

[pieface]

I watched the Rick Shiels video the other week and if that is anything to go by then the ball isn't as big a factor as they would have you believe.
In the test I think it showed the difference between a modern ball and a 20yr old ball was at the most 10 yards on a drive, on iron shots the difference was literally a few yards.

 

[Jamesbrown]

No, Amatuers have gained 8 yards in 20 years. What’s changed is professional golfers fitness. More pros are hitting it further because more pros are hitting the gym and doing golf specific workouts.
Science, biomechanics and research all play apart in this.
I want to hit the ball further, my pro can give me the techniques, but he can’t give me the body. For that he’ll put me in touch with the trainers he uses for his England Golf guys.

 

[Imurg]

I think the pro ball needs sorted. If the ball was knocked back say 30 yards on driving average then I'm sure we would see more exciting golf.

But would you?
The Bombers (Tony Finau) will be hitting it 300 whereas the non-bombers (Kuchar) will be hitting it less than 250.
So the Bombers still have the distance advantage.
I'm all for rewarding long, straight driving. It's an integral part of the game.
But if you hit it 40 yards off line then it should be difficult, not impossible but hard, to make the green with your next shot.
Having the ball in "rough" that is 1/2 inch deep isn't going to stop anyone playing a shot.
Good golf and respectable scores can be done - the Hero in India..course about 6700 yards and nobody burnt it up.

 

[anotherdouble]

I do not care how far a pro hits it or where it goes as it will not affect my game. Different pros are winning different tournaments and so it doesn't get boring. Not all pros play all tournaments as it's horses for courses. Different courses suit different games. Poulter won last week and he is short hitter compared to a lot of them. It doesn't spoil my viewing if a competition is won by 30 under and it's only rarely a player is miles ahead of the field, and the the rest won't be far away. Do any amateur tennis players on here worry how fast the professionals serve or how hard a volley is, I doubt it. Don't let what the professionals do worry you. It all goes over my head

 

[clubchamp98]

To be fair it’s like the formula 1 argument.
All the recent improvements to cars we drive are proven in the races but not just F1 .
we choose the length we play and the pro game dosnt really affect me.
Its good we can play the same gear as the pros .
No matter how you set the course they will find the best way to score round it.
The 80yrd wide fairways have to be reigned in But do you really want to watch the best in the world hawking out of ankle deep rough every week.?