Apps on your iphone

[Imurg]

I sent an e-mail to the R&A the other day to try and clarify the rules on using iphone GPS Apps (or Android versions).
My HTC Desire has apps aplenty on it, including weather info. This got me wondering as to whether I could use the phone and a GPS App like Freecaddie instead of my Skycaddie. Here's what I wrote :-


I have a new Smartphone and may want to use it with an App as a GPS Measuring Device. My club has the Local Rule in place so GPS systems like Skycaddie are permissable. However, reading the rules section of the website I found Rule 14-3/16 that states that any device that supplies temperature information or such like is banned. My phone displays the temperature and is capable of downloading weather information as well as gradients. Although I would not do this during a competition, the fact that I could leaves me wondering if I would be in breach of the rule.
Can you clarify for me please.

And here's the answer :-

Dear Mr Murgatroyd

Thank you for your email.

The use of distance measuring devices during a stipulated round remains contrary to the Rules of Golf; however, a Committee can permit them via a Local Rule.

In terms of a GPS device on an iPhone or Blackberry, provided the distance application that is downloaded measures just distance only, it is permitted to use the iphone or Blackberry for this purpse when the Local Rule is in place. However, it is worth noting that any other applications on the phone such as a compass, wind speed or temperature gauge would render the iPhone non-conforming, even although the specific distance application does not measure these aspects. Therefore as your phone has and displays a temperature app, it would not be possible to use the distance application in a competition.

It is appreciated that as the Internet is now readily available on most mobile phones and multi-functional devices, it is possible to access non-conforming information through this route at any time. In terms of the Rules, provided the Internet is not used for this purpose, the fact that it exists on the phone does not render the distance application non-conforming.

I hope that this is of assistance.

Kind regards
SHONA McRAE
Manager - Rules of Golf


Therefore, unless I delete all possible weather, temperature, gradient etc etc apps or functions from my phone, I cannot use it in competition.

How many of you who use iphone or similar as a GPS DMD have a weather app installed or even a weather report page or similar?

 

[User 105]

that's an interesting response from the R&A.

I'd never actually throught of it that way.

I wonder what Golfshot, freecaddie, teeshot etc would have to say. Have you posted to any of their support forums and see what they say ?

Pretty much means you need a dedicated 'locked down' Golf Specific GPS device for comps.

Doesn't stop you using them for casual rounds though.

 

[coolhand]

I suspect that this is a can of worms that the R&A will need to evolve it's rulings on over the next couple of years. For example the:

"It is appreciated that as the Internet is now readily available on most mobile phones and multi-functional devices, it is possible to access non-conforming information through this route at any time. In terms of the Rules, provided the Internet is not used for this purpose, the fact that it exists on the phone does not render the distance application non-conforming."

Seems to indicate a "it's there but as long as you don't use it its Ok" attitude to Internet access. Why not take a similar attitude to other smart phone apps?
However it all gets very difficult to police so do they end up having to go the other way and ban all non-dedicated devices?

Complicated

 

[john0]

Dear Mr Murgatroyd

Why do you use a comedy name when contacting the R&A?

 

[Ken_A]

Interesting post - Our old age brigade don't let us use any form of DMD. I have a Iphone and the DMD is never used due to this. However, your post got me wondering -

I have a Motocaddy S3 - and it shows distance and temp - I can enter comp mode and this removes the temp info- but it it then still legal as I can turn them back on at any stage?

Is an IPhone legal if teh app is removed but the internet is still available?

 

[Scott1505]

As i see it from their response an iphone is completely non-conforming as i don't believe there is anyway to remove the compass as this comes standard with every one.

Although someone might be able to tell me how to do this

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Its part of a master plan to get us all to buy Sky caddies.

if the R&A ban all phones with apps, someone is gonne make a heap of cash

Fragger
(King of the Conspiracy Theory)

 

[haplesshacker]

Well done for doing this Ian. Especially after the discussions that have been round and round on here over the last few months.

In essence then my golf club were right. I guess they took advice from the R&A.

But that leaves Golfshot, Freecaddie, ViewTi all out of business.

I believe the only way to remove pre-loaded apps like the weather app is to 'jail break' your iPhone.

It does seem though, that even if you don't have non conforming apps on your phone, your techie phone is still illegal because you can download them whilst out on the course.

It sucks, and does look as though there has been some 'lobbying' going on from certain corners!!! Or is it just 'duffers' making the rules and notkeeping pace with technology?

They can't even use the have and have not excuse. More folks have techie phones, than dedicated golf GPS units.

 

[Aztecs27]

This is going to seem really ignorant, but how can standard weather apps help your game?

I mean, you're outside so you've got a good idea about what the weather is doing, you don't need to double check on your iPhone.

I can understand if it's giving you up-to-the-minute, accurate wind speed and temperature readings, but they can't do this.

Can someone enlighten me?

 

[GasMan]

Absolutely stinks if you ask me and I only use GPS when I haven't played the course before or I'm annotating the course guide book I have if I'm going to play competitive rounds there.

The whole thing about they're capable of downloading other applications etc screams that a leveraged decision has been made by the powers that be.

Surely it means that if you have an internet capable phone on or about your person during a competition round, that you are liable to be DQ'd because you could use it to cheat.

If the above is true just wait for the speight of locker room and car thefts to come about on medal days. That and random strip searches by the 1st tee to establish whether you have any potential cheating devices about you.

STUPID ruling in my humble opinion!

 

[Imurg]

Don't forget the ruling says that just having an internet phone doesn't in itself render the phone illegal. Its having weather, gradient, compass etc apps that does.

Weather apps could give you wind speed and direction as well as temperatures - not that much of a real help but against the rules. Compass obviously gives you direction so you then know where the wind is coming from - or going to change to. Gradient speaks for itself.

If your phone doesn't have any of these type of apps then you can use it.

 

[GasMan]

For any internet capable phone from the last 5 years or so bar the mega basic ones you will be able to download something that could give you an "illegal" advantage.

If they put that decision on their website it will be open season for the competitions gestapo to start DQ'ing people left, right and centre.

I for one carry my mobile in my bag switched off and it's a nearly 2 year old piece of trash but it could get me DQ'd as you can download a weather application for it.

 

[Imurg]

It is appreciated that as the Internet is now readily available on most mobile phones and multi-functional devices, it is possible to access non-conforming information through this route at any time. In terms of the Rules, provided the Internet is not used for this purpose, the fact that it exists on the phone does not render the distance application non-conforming.

This is the important bit.

As long as you don't use the internet you're ok to have an internet capable phone working your GPS App.
You're not allowed to have apps that give info about weather etc etc

 

[User 105]

Is there a subtle differnece here

The statement

does not render the distance application non-conforming

My reading of this is the application, i.e. Freecaddie, golfshot etc, will be legal. But if the 'device' is capable of illegal actions (Weather, compass, Temp Etc) it will make the device you run the app on non-conforming. Thus illegal.

From the R&A Website

Multi-functional devices such as mobile phones, PDAs, etc (i.e. devices that are
primarily communication devices, but which may have other potential uses) may
be used as follows:
- The device may be used for any non-golfing purpose (e.g. as a
communication tool to phone, text or email), subject to any club / course
regulations and the Rules on accessing advice-related matters – see Decision
14-3/16.
-When the Local Rule is in effect, a distance-measuring application may be
used, provided the specific application is restricted to “distance only” and the
device does not have any other “non-conforming” features. This is the case even
if these other features are not being used. As above, the Rules on advice-related
communications (including the use of the internet) still apply.

 

[viscount17]

I can't see that a compass app gives any advantage at all. How is knowing the wind is blowing from ESE going to improve on anything that a handful of thrown grass gives you?

it is going to be a minefield and I don't see DMD being made illegal. gonna cost though as the alternative is to open an Approved/Non-approved list for devices and apps.

and imo Motocaddy S3 has to be non-approved - switching off is not enough

 

[madandra]

If you had to use all the apps available during a round it would take 6 hours. Would you see them with the spirit level app trying to guage the gradient of the green.


JUST HIT THE CHUFFING BALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[haplesshacker]

At the end of the day, regardless of how much information is available to us, from whatever device or app. It's still up to the numpty holding the bat to play the shot. And I wonder if the R&A have forgotten that?

It's no different to yacht racing, where there is an abundance of info available, but the crew still have to sail the flipping thing.

 

[shagster]

as i have said on here before, distance to green is far more important then all the other bullshit devices on an iphone.
if i am on the wrong fairway, not an unusual occurance, a device that tells me its 224 yards to the centre of a green i cant see is going to out weigh a gadget that tells me i am facing 67 deg and the wind is 12.3 mph at an angle of 38 deg to where i am facing, and the temp 21 deg c and the green has an upward slope of 9.6 deg.
lets get things into perspective, the old duffers and what ever level have to put things into perspective, and embrace iphone apps, or ban all measuring devices.
maybe skycaddie and similar devices do not like cheap competition from golfshot and the such like.
maybe ban all devices from comps, then no dispute, and use whatever you want any other time.
but i think the r and a really need to put time and effort and think about the long term

 

[Tiger]

Really interesting thread but I have another problem. Went to play a new course the other day. Downloaded freecaddie course info. Got there no 3G signal, in fact no phone signal at all rendering the iPhone useless.