Another Mass Shooting in the US

[SocketRocket]

Is there a misunderstanding that the police did nothing at all?

According to reports, police did actually enter the school only 4 minutes after the gunman. One officer called out "yell if you need help". A girl said help, the gunman entered the classroom and shot her. An officer barged into the room (there were 3 in total at this point), but retreated as soon as the gunman started firing back, injuring 2 of them. Another 4 officers had entered behind them. Meanwhile, officers were busy stopping many parents from rushing into the school. Completely understandable why parents would, but they would have been sitting ducks.

It is clear that the responding officers simply did not have the training or equipment to adequately deal with a gunman wearing tactical armour and an assault rifle. Hence, 7 officers entered the school and then had to retreat. They needed to wait for a Border Patrol Tactical Unit to arrive.

I'm sure mistakes were made, is any operation perfect, especially when lives are lost? There will always be "what if" questions. I can sort of see why someone may feel it had become a hostage situation / gunman barricaded away. After the initial rampage, if he had been stuck in the same classroom with other students, I would have though the assumption would be he'd have killed them immediately, and if he didn't then he'd be keeping them alive for a reason? So, maybe there was a genuine hope that they'd have enough time to get the tactical unit onsite within the next 30-60 minutes, and then make their move, rather than have poorly trained officers barge in again and just have the gunman open fire on them and the remaining students?

It is easy for us to sit at home and speculate, especially with hindsight, what should have been done. Truth is, most of us (if not all) have not been in that situation, and were definitely not in that specific situation. I'm sure it is an extremely stressful event in which the person in charge can see the pros and cons of any such decision. And, it cannot be a good feeling as a regular officer if you are expected to go in and confront this individual, especially when the odds are that you will be the one that gets killed. As I said, the police did respond immediately after the gunman entered the school, at which point they quickly realised they were biting off more than they could chew.

Can you show a link from where you got your info please, I can't find anything regarding the police entering the classroom previously, rather that the police waited for the Janitor to arrive with the keys and then a tactical unit went in.

Here's the BBC story:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61613177

 

[Swango1980]

Can you show a link from where you got your info please, I can't find anything regarding the police entering the classroom previously, rather that the police waited for the Janitor to arrive with the keys and then a tactical unit went in.

Here's the BBC story:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61613177

I googled the incident, including police reaction, and several articles came up about police entering the building, getting wounded and retreating. I then went onto the Wiki page for it. Again, I appreciate this is not necessarily 100% factual, but thew timeline was:

11:31am - Ramos arrives at the school and begins shooting
11:33am - Ramos enters the school
11:35am - 3 police officers enter the school, Ramos fires at them injuring two. Four more officers enter school

It doesn't say exactly when they retreat

12:15pm - Border Patrol Tactical Unit arrive with tactical shields
12:50pm - Border Patrol use janitors key to unlock door, kill Ramos

So, up until 12:15pm, I can understand the police actions. Imagine someone locked in a classroom with an assault rifle. Presumably, that person will have their weapon focused on the only entry into the room. Would you like to be the officer who opens the door with your pistol? Even if they had an assault rifle, Ramos would have a significant advantage as all he needs to do is point his weapon at the door and shoot at any sign of movement. I doubt many regular police officers are like John McClain from Die Hard. Waiting for the necessary equipment would seem absolutely necessary, unless the officer in charge decided to send his officers in like lambs to the slaughter.

From 12:15 to 12:50, I'm unsure what happened in that 35 minutes. Presumably it takes time to organise an assault into the classroom. I think I read somewhere that there was also an issue about getting into the classroom after Ramos locked the door, as they didn't have the equipment for that (I guess why they needed the key)

 

[D-S]

Can you show a link from where you got your info please, I can't find anything regarding the police entering the classroom previously, rather that the police waited for the Janitor to arrive with the keys and then a tactical unit went in.

Here's the BBC story:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61613177

Here is the link from the New York Times which I posted (#212 in this thread) which gives you a minute by minute description of the events.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/05/28/us/school-shooting-timeline-uvalde-texas.html

 

[Swango1980]

Here is the link from the New York Times which I posted (#212 in this thread) which gives you a minute by minute description of the events.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/05/28/us/school-shooting-timeline-uvalde-texas.html

I don't think anyone can read that unless they register an account with the NY Times? I appreciate it is a free account, but I'm guessing some don't bother taking that step when clicking on the link. I'm personally always reluctant to create yet another account for something.

 

[D-S]

I don't think anyone can read that unless they register an account with the NY Times? I appreciate it is a free account, but I'm guessing some don't bother taking that step when clicking on the link. I'm personally always reluctant to create yet another account for something.

Sorry, I read it via a Twitter link and it wasn’t hidden behind a paywall. Here is a link to the tweet, you might be able to see it via this

https://twitter.com/x/status/1530715391533588481

 

[Mudball]

Only in America…

https://twitter.com/x/status/1531264007142875139

 

[Mel Smooth]

And another one.
5 dead in Tulsa.

 

[D-S]

By the look of it the ‘killing fields’ of the USA aren’t going away soon.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1533419420059586562

 

[bobmac]

If a mob of people attack your home, you need an AR 15.
Nuts

 

[patricks148]

I caddied for an American couple on Sunday, on the face of it they seemed like normal people, but we got on the subject of guns and mass shootings in the U S. Tbh the excuses he came up with to justify unlimited gun ownership in the states was laughable and even the wife made some pretty remarkable reasons to have as many guns as they could.

 

[Robster59]

I caddied for an American couple on Sunday, on the face of it they seemed like normal people, but we got on the subject of guns and mass shootings in the U S. Tbh the excuses he came up with to justify unlimited gun ownership in the states was laughable and even the wife made some pretty remarkable reasons to have as many guns as they could.

And I bet they couldn't understand the fact we don't own guns in this country.
As I say, it's not going to change. People will spout whatever bull they want to stay as they are.

 

[D-S]

The casual acceptance that the regular slaughter of young children (and many, many others) is an acceptable price to pay for their ‘freedoms’, is both horrific and staggering.

 

[bobmac]

Only in America…

https://twitter.com/x/status/1531264007142875139

The other gun is probably his little sisters