And, we're off.....2016/17

[Deleted member 16999]

That's very interesting to hear pundits talking like that but like yourself I was calling this back in Oct/November

It's only a theory but a plausible one.

Klopp may have over achieved with this group of players early season by not changing much other than attitude to working hard both in and out of possession. Stats back up that Liverpool players covered more ground and had more sprints etc in a game than any other team.

Are they burnt out ? Or have teams found a way to negate the high press?

It's not about LPool alone though is it? Any manager worth their salt will look at the opposition and spot their weakness's, how many times has Jose been slagged off in the past for parking the bus against top teams and beating them, or Arsenal in the past being called boring because of the amount of 1-0 wins they had, is Ranieri now bad as teams have adapted to play Leicester, sometimes it's no more than the opposition doing their homework.

 

[sawtooth]

It's not about LPool alone though is it? Any manager worth their salt will look at the opposition and spot their weakness's, how many times has Jose been slagged off in the past for parking the bus against top teams and beating them, or Arsenal in the past being called boring because of the amount of 1-0 wins they had, is Ranieri now bad as teams have adapted to play Leicester, sometimes it's no more than the opposition doing their homework.

There's an interesting article on BBC football pages about RB Leipzig ," most hated club in Germany."

They could be talking about Chelsea as there are parallels how external money has fast tracked success in a short amount of time. 😙

It sounds like Rangnick is also a fan of the high press, maybe he copied Klopp or the other way around who knows.

"In Leipzig they place huge emphasis on pressing the other team high up the pitch and winning the ball in the opponent's half. "Even if you're the best player in the world and you're being attacked by three players, you lose the ball," he says."

 

[Pin-seeker]

Jürgen Klopp has an identical record to Brendan Rodgers in his first 54 PL games as Liverpool boss (W26 D16 L12).

Progress.

Just saying 😬

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Jürgen Klopp has an identical record to Brendan Rodgers in his first 54 PL games as Liverpool boss (W26 D16 L12).

Progress.

Just saying 

But at least he's straigyt and gives an honest appraisal of his players rather than "every player played perfect" which is what BR always spouted.

 

[sawtooth]

Jürgen Klopp has an identical record to Brendan Rodgers in his first 54 PL games as Liverpool boss (W26 D16 L12).

Progress.

Just saying 

The last thing the owners want to see is BR doing well north of the border when Klopp is having a mare.

Tabloids are reporting this morning that BR is being lined up for a sensational return to Anfield in the Summer.

#FakeNews.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The last thing the owners want to see is BR doing well north of the border when Klopp is having a mare.

Tabloids are reporting this morning that BR is being lined up for a sensational return to Anfield in the Summer.

#FakeNews.

Are you deliberately talking nonsense ?

I expect the owners don't really care what a previous manager is doing - especially in a league which isn't at the same level

The owners will only care about what the current manager is currently doing

Rodgers had 3 and half years at the club as manager and had one good season from that , he was poor the first season , poor the last season and shocking in two seasons in Europe.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

#FakeNews was the clue. It was a wind up.

 

[Fish]

Are you deliberately talking nonsense ?

I expect the owners don't really care what a previous manager is doing - especially in a league which isn't at the same level

The owners will only care about what the current manager is currently doing

Rodgers had 3 and half years at the club as manager and had one good season from that , he was poor the first season , poor the last season and shocking in two seasons in Europe.

He can't himself, he's a lost cause.

How do you compare or rate the Bundersliga to the Premier League,

 

[Fish]

#FakeNews was the clue. It was a wind up.

Only the second paragraph, it was still a veiled pop still, he's turned into a bit of troll.

 

[sawtooth]

Only the second paragraph, it was still a veiled pop still, he's turned into a bit of troll.

How is that trolling?

Thats rich coming from someone who routinely calls people "knobs" who have a difference in opinion.

12 months without an infraction on your signature really ought to read 12 days.

There's banter and then there's personal insults.

 

[Pin-seeker]

But at least he's straigyt and gives an honest appraisal of his players rather than "every player played perfect" which is what BR always spouted.

Yep & don't forget how he's a great character 😂

 

[Deleted member 15344]

He can't himself, he's a lost cause.

How do you compare or rate the Bundersliga to the Premier League,

I thhin they are comparable in terms of the quality of the top teams within the leagues but in Germany I expect there are a few more "dead ducks" as such. Also there is the lack of winter break and when the games are played there seems less pressure and intensity during the German games.

I think for a player it's easier to move from Bundasliga to Prem but as a manager it's going to take a bit of time.

I think from Serie A to Prem then for the manager the tactics are a bit similar so managers can move over well - as you can see with Conte , his tactics work well both in Serie A and Prem

Klopp for example once he got his own players in adjusted his tactics at Dortmund - they were superb going forward but also had two superb CB's and players defending will in the middle. Given time he will sort out the defending issue - just needs to also get more pace and width

 

[Slime]

Klopp for example once he got his own players in adjusted his tactics at Dortmund - they were superb going forward but also had two superb CB's and players defending will in the middle. Given time he will sort out the defending issue - just needs to also get more pace and width

To be fair though, Phil, he has had three transfer windows and doesn't appear to be much closer to sorting out his defensive issues.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

To be fair though, Phil, he has had three transfer windows and doesn't appear to be much closer to sorting out his defensive issues.

For me Winter transfer windows are the time for wholesale changes and it's a hard time to get players teams want - none of the major clubs do much business in the winter anymore or any crucial business , it's an inflated time to buy players . For me the time to look to bring players in is the summer transfer window. His first one so far he brought in a GK and two CB's plus was looking for a left back.

The CB brought in was a big upgrade on previous players but the GK is the next big issue and you don't get them in the winter. Next summer he will address that again with Ming going and a more experienced than Karius arriving. Plus looking at a left back - I don't think managers should be judged on "transfer windows" - maybe whole seasons and so far Klopp hasn't had one full season yet. As an example it took Klopp two seasons to get Dortmund up to the top in the league - ill look to next May and see what improvements have been made and where we are going.

 

[Fish]

As an example it took Klopp two seasons to get Dortmund up to the top in the league - ill look to next May and see what improvements have been made and where we are going.

It did but hence my earlier question, he got them to back to back titles which is commendable, but, when I looked at that today, because I was bored, Munich who have always been pretty dominant (and still are) kind of really fell away for those 2 years only getting 65 & 73 points as runners up with Dortmund winning with 81 and only 75, so, did Klopp really do something special or did Munich fall away for some reason allowing Dortmund in but not really doing anything different from the previous 2 years points wise!

Since then Munich have gone back to dominating the last 4 years and winning their league with 90 points for 2 seasons.

I'm just wondering is the Bundesliga like the Scottish PL where although there are many teams, only a couple are really going to feature and if one of them wobbles due to manager/owner changes etc, it lets the other team in?

I'm wondering if the PL is going to be too big a step for Klopp, initially, or at least going straight to Liverpool where the expectancy may be too be high for him as they are looking for something he might not be able to deliver as quick as they'd like?

It's not a pop, it's a genuine observation as there are clear cracks already I think in his one-dimensional, high intensity game plans, I think without a very strong bench & squad they can't, as Dortmund couldn't as they eventually plummeted to 7th with only 46 points, maintain that level of playing.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It did but hence my earlier question, he got them to back to back titles which is commendable, but, when I looked at that today, because I was bored, Munich who have always been pretty dominant (and still are) kind of really fell away for those 2 years only getting 65 & 73 points as runners up with Dortmund winning with 81 and only 75, so, did Klopp really do something special or did Munich fall away for some reason allowing Dortmund in but not really doing anything different from the previous 2 years points wise!

Since then Munich have gone back to dominating the last 4 years and winning their league with 90 points for 2 seasons.

I'm just wondering is the Bundesliga like the Scottish PL where although there are many teams, only a couple are really going to feature and if one of them wobbles due to manager/owner changes etc, it lets the other team in?

I'm wondering if the PL is going to be too big a step for Klopp, initially, or at least going straight to Liverpool where the expectancy may be too be high for him as they are looking for something he might not be able to deliver as quick as they'd like?

It's not a pop, it's a genuine observation as there are clear cracks already I think in his one-dimensional, high intensity game plans, I think without a very strong bench & squad they can't, as Dortmund couldn't as they eventually plummeted to 46 points, maintain that level of playing.

It's valid observations because it's always going to be different regardless of what league they manage in and any manager will have a question mark until they deliver in two different leagues - managers like Pep , Ancelotti and Maureen have so far - with Ancelotti the top of the tree delivering in 4 leagues as well as CL a number of times.

You are right about the expectation levels with Liverpool - don't think that will ever change , same at all the clubs now , if the manager doesn't be deliver to those expectations then they go - the difference between clubs is the time that is given.

Will Klopp deliver the title over the next couple of years ? I think he can but first I think he needs to get CL football and then look to build on that - yes it's another "5 year plan etc" but we as a club need to actually build on those plans as opposed to starting over again. Even if Klopp doesn't win the title can see a foundation built for a manager to come in a develop on top of that - but it could all go horribly wrong and we need to start again.

I do honestly think Klopp is the best chance we have had since Rafa - up to Dec the football we played was amazing - just haven't recovered from losing key players plus he needs to look at ways to break down teams that park the bus , going through the middle isn't going to work. Whilst we are in a bit of dip at the moment I'm still confident that we can get a top 4 slot this year and I think there is prob only one other manager I would have at Liverpool right now and that's Ancelotti

 

[pokerjoke]

Klopp has had imo not enough time and resources to get his own players in,however can he actually attract the players to compete for the title or even a CL place.

Wether Klopp is the right man time will tell but I cant see him ever qualifying for CL or competing for the league whilst the others spend fortunes on players and without CL who are they going to attract and what quality would that be,i suppose it would be players just under that great category or players other big teams don't want.

Klopp so far has failed to change his tact from the high pressing game and has no plan B.

He also has shown weakness in getting the best out of players like Sturrige,Wjnaldum and in one of his better players he plays him too deep to effect the game enough[Henderson].

Two weak keepers a dodgy left back no out and out goalscorer[he has one in Sturridge but Sturridge doesn't work hard enough and looks out of favour,in fact it all looks rather bleak to me.

It will be interesting to see without CL wether he can get any quality and progress or as someone said yet again try another manager,but imo he has to be given more time.

 

[Pin-seeker]

One bookmaker already paying out on Chelsea winning the title.

 

[garyinderry]

Its funny how Rodgers gets beat with the Suarez stick yet Klopp seems to be given a by ball when his team is so heavily reliant on Mane making anything happen up top.

Should Liverpool have held onto Skrtel? what about the sako thing? as much as a madman as he looked on the ball, he wasn't all that bad at defending was he? Did Klopp push him out unnecessarily?

Rodgers conceded less goals and scored more in his first 54 premier league games.

 

[sawtooth]

Its funny how Rodgers gets beat with the Suarez stick yet Klopp seems to be given a by ball when his team is so heavily reliant on Mane making anything happen up top.

Should Liverpool have held onto Skrtel? what about the sako thing? as much as a madman as he looked on the ball, he wasn't all that bad at defending was he? Did Klopp push him out unnecessarily?

Rodgers conceded less goals and scored more in his first 54 premier league games.

Yeah but Rodgers didn't win the league and Liverpool don't want to wait any longer to win it. Its been almost 27 years so if they have to keep switching managers until they get one that wins the league then that's exactly what they will do.

Question is, how long do they give Klopp? It will be expensive and embarrassing to get rid of him too early (after only extending his contract by 2 years recently) but can they afford to wait till 2022 if they don't ever look like winning the PL?