I'd agree with this. :thup:
It doesn't bother me whether you anchor your putter from your left eyelid, you're still going to miss that downhill left to right slider that 'must' go in
Anchored or Not?
- Thread starter Khamelion
- Start date
I'd agree with this. :thup:
It doesn't bother me whether you anchor your putter from your left eyelid, you're still going to miss that downhill left to right slider that 'must' go in
Khamelion
Tour Winner
So rule "16.1e. Standing Astride or on Line of Putt" states:
"The play must not make a stroke on the putting green from a stance astride, or with either foot touching the line of putt or an extension of that line behind the ball"
or the reworded version
"The player must not make a stroke on the putting green from a stance astride, or with either foot or any assistive device touching, the line of putt or an extension of that line behind the ball."
My interpretation of this is to stop the player creating a croquet like swing with a putter thus swung between the arch created by their open legs. So in order to try and replicate this croquet type of swing players anchor clubs against the stomach or chest leaning forward trying to recreate the arch of the legs.
That written there is nothing in the rules that would stop players, putting "side saddle" as long as they do not anchor the club. K J Choi tried this side saddle method a couple of years back but his club was anchored.
[video=youtube;nuNgK5mCSeo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuNgK5mCSeo[/video]
and this image of Sam Snead also putting side saddle, in the image his feet are pointing towards the hole
"The play must not make a stroke on the putting green from a stance astride, or with either foot touching the line of putt or an extension of that line behind the ball"
or the reworded version
"The player must not make a stroke on the putting green from a stance astride, or with either foot or any assistive device touching, the line of putt or an extension of that line behind the ball."
My interpretation of this is to stop the player creating a croquet like swing with a putter thus swung between the arch created by their open legs. So in order to try and replicate this croquet type of swing players anchor clubs against the stomach or chest leaning forward trying to recreate the arch of the legs.
That written there is nothing in the rules that would stop players, putting "side saddle" as long as they do not anchor the club. K J Choi tried this side saddle method a couple of years back but his club was anchored.
[video=youtube;nuNgK5mCSeo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuNgK5mCSeo[/video]
and this image of Sam Snead also putting side saddle, in the image his feet are pointing towards the hole
Shaunmg
Head Pro
I have never seen anyone in real life use one, only on the telly. Maybe the courses I play aren't posh enough :mmm:
Although I voted for ban, I would relent if they allow me to use my snooker cue :smirk:
Although I voted for ban, I would relent if they allow me to use my snooker cue :smirk:
scratch
Q-School Graduate
I'm still waiting for someone to put up a coherent argument as to why they should be banned. They offer no advantage, if they did then they are freely available to all.
All the arguments seem to revolve around 'spirit of the game' and a 'it's not cricket' mindset. Nothing tangible.
All the arguments seem to revolve around 'spirit of the game' and a 'it's not cricket' mindset. Nothing tangible.
Khamelion
Tour Winner
My reply #62 puts an argument forward other than 'spirit of the game'
Tommo21
Tour Winner
I think there is a clear advantage, that’s why they use it. If it didn’t give them some advantage they wouldn’t use it.. Els,Langer, Peter Senior and Adan Scott and many others improved after they changed. Els said as long as its legal, I’ll cheat with the rest of them.
The guy in my work, 2 HC, said he will give up if he can’t use it. After many years of good putting with the standard method he tried the long putter and he was a new man. I just asked him if he thought he had an advantage and he said yes....thats why I changed.
scratch
Q-School Graduate
No it doesn't because using a long putter does not involve standing astride the line of the putt and the 2nd part about a pendulum motion is open to interpretation. I could argue that using a 20 inch putter and bending right over the ball with my arms totally perpendicular creates a pendulum action but that isn't going to be banned.
Another issue that hasn't yet been defined is the definition of 'anchoring'.
Take the top hand on a broomhandle putter. If the hand is resting on the chest, it is anchored, fair enough no argument there. But what if the hand isn't anchored but the wrist is? Or half way up the forearm? Or anchored from the elbows up which a lot of people already do in a conventional putting motion to use a body turn rather than an arms type swing?
How do you both define 'anchoring' and also police it?
scratch
Q-School Graduate
So what is stopping you doing the same then?
Swinger
Journeyman Pro
I would argue that this is no different than getting a new putter or dragging out an old trusty putter, it acts as a trigger to remove all the old and negative thoughts and promote a new fearless outlook for a period of time.
There are no stats to suggest anything other than players being given a fresh outlook on the greens with a slightly different method of putting.
Khamelion
Tour Winner
I don't mention 'pendulum' motion, I did but I reworded my post before submitting so it read 'croquet style'. What I was implying or trying to was that in using a belly or broom handled putter, the player has to lean over further than normal to allow the anchoring to take place, in order to try and replicate the croquet style legs astride arch.
Now people will argue that using a small length putter, like what Garrigus did for a while is tantamount to the same thing, but he did not anchor his club, he was trying to create a pendulum swing. That said the pendulum swing is not in question, after all perfection of that swing style is reported to be the best choice when putting.
As for anchoring, for me it is holding the base of the club against a stationary fixed point, the belly or chest. Some will argue that Kucher is anchoring his putter by holding the club rigid against his forearm, but this is not a stationary point, fixed yes, but stationary no as his arm swings as an extension of the putter.
The putter should be used in the same way all other 13 clubs are swung, in that they are held away from the body and swung freely.
scratch
Q-School Graduate
But the problem is that the 13 other clubs aren't held away from the body.
If I have a little chip around the green I tuck my arms tight in against my body then just rock my shoulders. I can use practically any club in the bag to do this depending on the ratio air time to run out that I want. So should this method of chipping also be banned?
Khamelion
Tour Winner
You are holding your arms close in tight to your body, but you have not held the butt of the club against you torso, only in your hands. So the club is away from your body, irrespective of where you arms are.
And to flip this to the extreme, using your chipping example, would you now like a broom handle 50 degree wedge that you can anchor against you chest and use the same style putting stroke to chip the ball?
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Tommo21
Tour Winner
Nothing..............You asked a question, I gave you my answer.
Tommo21
Tour Winner
These guys have access to every putter in the world..they just happen to use the long one and BANG. Slightly different method :rofl:
scratch
Q-School Graduate
So why do you want long putters banned then?
scratch
Q-School Graduate
This is EXACTLY my point about policing any potential ban. If a broomhandle putter is held in the current method but there is a tiny gap between handle and chest, is this anchoring? If it isn't, then what is the point of going to all the lengths to ban this method.
Doh
Journeyman Pro
I voted no, if it means someone is going to stop playing golf because of it then that is sad. And that is not what this game needs right now.
Tommo21
Tour Winner
Is this a wind up....................I think there is an advantage....as I said above.
Khamelion
Tour Winner
But, thereby lies the issue, when holding the broom handled shaft, the butt of said shaft may not be against the torso, but the fact that you are holding and then rest your torso against the hand holding the butt, is anchoring.
Now if you were to have a long putter with a bent shaft that allowed you stand upright but hold you arm in tight to your side while holding the club away from you, which thus allowed you to swing the same as if you were hunched over and anchoring against yourself, that would resolve the issue, but you would not be allowed a bent shaft, as "The shaft must be straight from the top of the grip to a point not more than 5 inches (127 mm) above the sole, measured from the point where the shaft ceases to be straight along the axis of the bent part of the shaft and the neck and/or socket"
There's no dispute over the belly putter, that is clearly stuck in the stomach.
Swinger
Journeyman Pro
I'm gonna need better clarifaction of 'BANG' and 1 major from a guy who was supposed to be past it doesn't cut it for me.
I'll give you that broomhandle putters are a vastly different method but belly putting seems pretty similar to me.
