Alterations to WHS?

[Banchory Buddha]

In other words you just pile the responsibilities onto one person who claims they once did sums at school.....this is not simplifying or making the system in nearly any way better for the users of that system. The way WHS has been rolled out has been, from an ex-project manager's view, a sh1tstorm.

 

[wjemather]

Both these tables are using machine precision to produce the HI ranges. The availability of tables like these (95%,90%,85%....) at clubs for members to easily access would be extremely useful.
I know 100% tables can be easily be generated on ncrdb.usga.org but please may I ask what route is needed for percentage tables? Thanks

All PH charts (both current rules and rules from April) are available to download from the WHS administration portal (dotgolf), which is accessible to clubs and handicap committees.

 

[Plus4]

WHS is apparently much simpler for everyone. Machine precision, tables available for download, etc.

I'd agree that WHS may be a lot simpler if we could all plug ourselves into the Matrix, download information directly to our heads and be done with it

However, many golfers still can't use a smart phone (or use it quickly), let alone plug themselves into the Matrix.

I still think the whole "Playing Handicap" thing has made things stupidly more complicated that WHS ever needed to be. Just embed the blooming 95% into the Course Hcp calc and be done with it.

I hear what you say and fundamentally agree - WHS is complex and most are not interested, or able to cope, with the detail. % charts for the popular formats (a few A4 sheets is all that would be needed) strategically placed at the club along with good communication to members would mean job done. For less common formats golfers should be directed to local 'subject experts'.

 

[Genu9]

All PH charts (both current rules and rules from April) are available to download from the WHS administration portal (dotgolf), which is accessible to clubs and handicap committees.

That's nice of them. What about the plebs..........

 

[Swango1980]

That's nice of them. What about the plebs..........

I'm very very interested how this will impact the plebs.

The only reason I'm aware of the WHS changes is because of the chat on this forum. If I didn't come on this forum (like more than 99% of golfers probably), I wouldn't have had a clue about upcoming changes. No idea that the boards will be obsolete, no idea about CR-Par being added (and at some clubs very big differences to course handicaps, especially between different tees). No idea about 4BBB additions, or the changes to calculating allowances in 4BBB matchplay. Although even reading what many of the informed are saying in here, I'm probably even more confused as to how some of this will work in practice anyway, machine precision, etc.

My club has posted absolutely no information to members about upcoming changes. Have other clubs? If not, are clubs holding back because even the top authorities are not committing to publicising anything about the changes? Are they still not certain exactly how these changes will be finalised?

It sounds to me like another big fine mess. The implementation of WHS was an embarrassment in many ways. Now it seems like the first big set of changes will also be rolled out in a really inefficient and embarrassing way

 

[IanMcC]

I see that the online mixed tee calculator has now reached version v1.18. I think that is 4 changes in a fortnight.
Does anyone know what has changed from version 17 to 18?

 

[BiMGuy]

I'm very very interested how this will impact the plebs.

The only reason I'm aware of the WHS changes is because of the chat on this forum. If I didn't come on this forum (like more than 99% of golfers probably), I wouldn't have had a clue about upcoming changes. No idea that the boards will be obsolete, no idea about CR-Par being added (and at some clubs very big differences to course handicaps, especially between different tees). No idea about 4BBB additions, or the changes to calculating allowances in 4BBB matchplay. Although even reading what many of the informed are saying in here, I'm probably even more confused as to how some of this will work in practice anyway, machine precision, etc.

My club has posted absolutely no information to members about upcoming changes. Have other clubs? If not, are clubs holding back because even the top authorities are not committing to publicising anything about the changes? Are they still not certain exactly how these changes will be finalised?

It sounds to me like another big fine mess. The implementation of WHS was an embarrassment in many ways. Now it seems like the first big set of changes will also be rolled out in a really inefficient and embarrassing way

If I were implementing these changes I wouldn’t announce them until much closer to the date they go live. Lots of people appear confused already without having additional information in their head that is not relevant at the current time.

 

[wjemather]

That's nice of them. What about the plebs..........

They consult the charts their handicap committee has printed and provided for them.

 

[wjemather]

I'm very very interested how this will impact the plebs.

The only reason I'm aware of the WHS changes is because of the chat on this forum. If I didn't come on this forum (like more than 99% of golfers probably), I wouldn't have had a clue about upcoming changes. No idea that the boards will be obsolete, no idea about CR-Par being added (and at some clubs very big differences to course handicaps, especially between different tees). No idea about 4BBB additions, or the changes to calculating allowances in 4BBB matchplay. Although even reading what many of the informed are saying in here, I'm probably even more confused as to how some of this will work in practice anyway, machine precision, etc.

My club has posted absolutely no information to members about upcoming changes. Have other clubs? If not, are clubs holding back because even the top authorities are not committing to publicising anything about the changes? Are they still not certain exactly how these changes will be finalised?

It sounds to me like another big fine mess. The implementation of WHS was an embarrassment in many ways. Now it seems like the first big set of changes will also be rolled out in a really inefficient and embarrassing way

As a player you really have no need to know anything until a few weeks before the changeover. In fact, most don't even need that.

A simple notice: "due to recent handicap system updates,your course/playing handicap may have changed, please check before play" would be more than sufficient for most people without having any details whatsoever.

 

[Swango1980]

As a player you really have no need to know anything until a few weeks before the changeover. In fact, most don't even need that.

A simple notice: "due to recent handicap system updates,your course/playing handicap may have changed, please check before play" would be more than sufficient for most people without having any details whatsoever.

Quite a presumptuous thing to say, almost arrogant perhaps? No need for the plebs to know anything until the last minute. After all, it is only 99%+ of all golfers.

"your course handicap MAY have changed"?

At some clubs, there is no "may" about it. At some clubs, players course handicaps could well have changed by 3, 4, 5, etc shots if Par is significantly different to CR. I suspect a lot of golfers will be scratching their heads if this is thrown at them at the last minute. I suspect it would be wise, and respectful, for England Golf to encourage publicising these significant changes early. Perhaps not quite as in advance to the introduction of WHS itself, but once we got to the back end of last season, I'd have thought it would be a great idea for England Golf to start preparing some publicity around the key changes. Even an A4 flyer that clubs can post on noticeboards / e-mail to members. Maybe a fill in the blanks type poster, where Committees can make it relevant to their own Par and CR ratings.

 

[BiMGuy]

Quite a presumptuous thing to say, almost arrogant perhaps? No need for the plebs to know anything until the last minute. After all, it is only 99%+ of all golfers.

"your course handicap MAY have changed"?

At some clubs, there is no "may" about it. At some clubs, players course handicaps could well have changed by 3, 4, 5, etc shots if Par is significantly different to CR. I suspect a lot of golfers will be scratching their heads if this is thrown at them at the last minute. I suspect is would be wise, and respectful, for England Golf to encourage publicising these significant changes early. Perhaps not quite as in advance to the introduction of WHS itself, but once we got to the back end of last season, I'd have thought it would be a great idea for England Golf to start preparing some publicity around the key changes. Even an A4 flyer that clubs can post on noticeboards / e-mail to members. Maybe a fill in the blanks type poster, where Committees can make it relevant to their own Par and CR ratings.

What good would telling a group of people who are already confused about changes that will be made in April?

All it would do is confuse them further.

If you want to refer to yourself as a pleb, crack on. But don’t include all of us. Ta

 

[Swango1980]

What good would telling a group of people who are already confused about changes that will be made in April?

All it would do is confuse them further.

If you want to refer to yourself as a pleb, crack on. But don’t include all of us. Ta

Golfers are already confused by WHS. So no point in telling them anything when changes come into play.

I actually agree this is probably why England Golf don't bother communicating very well any more. WHS is too confusing, so let's not waste any energy in telling golfers anything from now on. Hopefully they won't notice the changes anyway...

Obviously, plebs was a jovial way of describing regular golfers who do not spend hours on forums like this, not as an insult. It wasn't pointed towards anybody who comes onto this forum, especially those in this thread, as clearly anyone here takes an added interest in such things. If anything, we are the outliers, and probably considered plebs / losers to most normal golfers

 

[AussieKB]

Here in OZ we are all PLEBS and have been treated this way for years.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I don't think CR-Par is in the appropriate place in the formula.
If the whole point is to move everyone's handicap up or down using CR-Par, then it ought to come at the end after 95% has been applied.
At the moment the formula adjusts handicaps by 95% of CR-Par.
Another reason to embed 95%.

PH = ((HI x SR/113) x 0.95) + (CR-Par)

is starting to make more sense to me. The full difference of (CR-Par) is then applied.

Perhaps they could make this change on 1st January 2028.

 

[wjemather]

Quite a presumptuous thing to say, almost arrogant perhaps? No need for the plebs to know anything until the last minute. After all, it is only 99%+ of all golfers.

"your course handicap MAY have changed"?

At some clubs, there is no "may" about it. At some clubs, players course handicaps could well have changed by 3, 4, 5, etc shots if Par is significantly different to CR. I suspect a lot of golfers will be scratching their heads if this is thrown at them at the last minute. I suspect it would be wise, and respectful, for England Golf to encourage publicising these significant changes early. Perhaps not quite as in advance to the introduction of WHS itself, but once we got to the back end of last season, I'd have thought it would be a great idea for England Golf to start preparing some publicity around the key changes. Even an A4 flyer that clubs can post on noticeboards / e-mail to members. Maybe a fill in the blanks type poster, where Committees can make it relevant to their own Par and CR ratings.

Players don't need to know anything more than their Handicap Index, and even then only in some formats, in order to lookup their Course/Playing Handicap, which will be advised by the competition committee/software most of the time anyway.

All this stuff you want (posters, etc.) is on the EG website, available to everyone, and has been for months.

 

[D-S]

Has anyone seen an email from EG with news of a subsidy for signage change Clubs yet? I saw a draft before Christmas and they said it would be going out soon but I haven’t seen anything yet.
Eagle Golf referred to the EG voucher in an email with an offer for new boards, QR codes and a handicap calculator 3 weeks or so ago so the fact that EG haven’t sent the original offer yet is a tad confusing
Time is beginning to tick for Clubs and ISVs to get on board with the changes that need to happen.

 

[Swango1980]

Players don't need to know anything more than their Handicap Index, and even then only in some formats, in order to lookup their Course/Playing Handicap, which will be advised by the competition committee/software most of the time anyway.

All this stuff you want (posters, etc.) is on the EG website, available to everyone, and has been for months.

And well publicized, given that I'm sure 99.9% of golfers visit the England Golf website regularly...

And no doubt England Golf have been pushing golf clubs to publicize the changes, which will feel very significant for many golfers?

Mind you, forget regular golfers. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a fair few golf club Committees that are clueless. I wonder how many clubs have old Handicap Boards displayed at their clubs well after the changes are made, and then find out when someone points out to them that the App is giving them a handicap completely different to the Board

 

[Voyager EMH]

With only 9 weeks to go, I think that all the Playing Handicap sheets should be downloadable for every club member from their club's website.
Those who don't need to know, or don't want to, simply do not need to pay these sheets any attention.
But those who do wish to know right now, should be catered for to enable some preparation time.
Roll-ups and informal inter-club matches can operate outside handicaps and comps committees and electronic devices.
Yet there will be plenty of people who are not comfortable with an ignorance-is-bliss approach and prefer to know, really know and understand, how to get it right.
Two chaps I played with on Saturday had not heard anything about the forthcoming changes. They were very surprised at what I told them.
Leaving it this late is a mistake.

 

[wjemather]

And well publicized, given that I'm sure 99.9% of golfers visit the England Golf website regularly...

And no doubt England Golf have been pushing golf clubs to publicize the changes, which will feel very significant for many golfers?

Mind you, forget regular golfers. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a fair few golf club Committees that are clueless. I wonder how many clubs have old Handicap Boards displayed at their clubs well after the changes are made, and then find out when someone points out to them that the App is giving them a handicap completely different to the Board

All this stuff has been very well communicated to clubs and handicap committees, along with seminars and workshops for them to attend.

 

[D-S]

All this stuff has been very well communicated to clubs and handicap committees, along with seminars and workshops for them to attend.

The first seminar for clubs to attend in my neck of the woods is on February 14th. A lot of clubs, who have watched the webinar back in December, which didn’t have a q&a session, are waiting until they have attended the seminar before making any signage changes, communications to members, ISV queries etc.
Unfortunately the local seminar is full and it will serve an area with about 150 clubs with some clubs sending 4 delegates and there will only be about 100 places. My guess is that less than 50% of clubs will have representatives there especially as it is at 1pm so working committee members will struggle.
Our County is laying on a supplementary evening q&a session via zoom but this can only be done after the seminar as we know that some new info (e.g. the 4BB allowance calculation) wasn’t mentioned until the first seminar.
The North East one isn’t until 29th February so that is very tight for committee members, if they can get in.
It is a bit strange considering that last year with very little to announce, Counties were told to host at least 2 seminars on WHS updates following on from County Secretary and Handicap Advisor specific training days (something that hasn’t happened this year).