Abnormal ground conditions in a bunker

[woody69]

Playing a friendly game yesterday, my friend hit his approach into a green side bunker. When we got to it, the ball was resting quite high up the face in a rut/ridge that had been created from running water where the bunker had been flooded and rain water had run down the face. He claimed this was abnormal ground conditions and took a free drop at nearest point of relief (no nearer the hole) inside the bunker.

Was he correct? Would that be classified as abnormal ground conditions for a bunker?

 

[Spuddy]

I doubt it very much. The definition of abnormal ground condition is


'An abnormal ground condition is casual water, ground under repair or a hole, cast or runway made by a burrowing animal, a reptile or a bird.'

The water would still have to be there for it to be defined as such.

 

[Old Skier]

So he's in a hazard and takes a drop. Let's hope you didn't give him the money.

 

[woody69]

So he's in a hazard and takes a drop. Let's hope you didn't give him the money.

Nope, it was a friendly game. I questioned him when he claimed it, but I wasn't bothered what he did. I was more interested to know the correct answer in case I'm in a similar situation in a comp

 

[Old Skier]

Nope, it was a friendly game. I questioned him when he claimed it, but I wasn't bothered what he did. I was more interested to know the correct answer in case I'm in a similar situation in a comp

If he's in the bunker and it's still in play then no free drops.

 

[woody69]

If he's in the bunker and it's still in play then no free drops.

Yep, that's what I thought, but as I stated he claimed there was abnormal ground conditions caused by the flood water and the deep rutting that appeared when the water had resided. As pointed out by Spuddy though water ruts are not covered by the definition so he was wrong to drop.

 

[pbrown7582]

So under the abnormal ground condition scenario you would get relief if the bunker is un- raked. Don't think so you was had.

 

[woody69]

So under the abnormal ground condition scenario you would get relief if the bunker is un- raked. Don't think so you was had.

Not really. It was obviously caused by a natural event (flood water). It wasn't simply because the previous player hadn't raked the bunker.

Also, I wasn't "had" as you put it. It was a friendly game between friends. He could have kicked it out for all I cared. I just wanted to be sure in case it was ever me in the bunker. I thought he was wrong, but I like to check these things. Turns out he was wrong.

 

[Old Skier]

Not really. It was obviously caused by a natural event (flood water). It wasn't simply because the previous player hadn't raked the bunker.

Also, I wasn't "had" as you put it. It was a friendly game between friends. He could have kicked it out for all I cared. I just wanted to be sure in case it was ever me in the bunker. I thought he was wrong, but I like to check these things. Turns out he was wrong.

In in a friendly it's always worth pointing out when a player is wrong. Stops it happening in a proper game. It's things like this when myths of golf occurs .

 

[woody69]

In in a friendly it's always worth pointing out when a player is wrong. Stops it happening in a proper game. It's things like this when myths of golf occurs .

Oh don't worry, he's been informed he was wrong (as I suspected) with much delight

 

[duncan mackie]

If he's in the bunker and it's still in play then no free drops.

the question as to whether a 'free drop' is available is not affected by the ball being in a bunker - the relevant issue is whether interference from AGC exists.

 

[Old Skier]

the question as to whether a 'free drop' is available is not affected by the ball being in a bunker - the relevant issue is whether interference from AGC exists.

You have a knack of actually sounding like the rule book. Please explain.

 

[rulefan]

So under the abnormal ground condition scenario you would get relief if the bunker is un- raked.

An un-raked bunker is not an Abnormal Ground Condition. So no free relief.

 

[rulefan]

Playing a friendly game yesterday, my friend hit his approach into a green side bunker. When we got to it, the ball was resting quite high up the face in a rut/ridge that had been created from running water where the bunker had been flooded and rain water had run down the face. He claimed this was abnormal ground conditions and took a free drop at nearest point of relief (no nearer the hole) inside the bunker.

Was he correct? Would that be classified as abnormal ground conditions for a bunker?

If the greenstaff had been up to speed they should have inspected the bunkers after heavy rain and marked affected areas as GUR (on the assumption that the committee have delegated such authority). It would be normal to do both the former and the latter.

 

[Foxholer]

You have a knack of actually sounding like the rule book. Please explain.

Can I try? Actually, Duncan normally explains it better than I do.

Abnormal Ground Conditions is the actual overall condition, therefore Rule, that covers a variety of circumstances, many of which would involve a free drop. It's merely WHERE that drop is that differs according to whether it's in a bunker or not. And the rules attempt to make it fair to everyone (and under all possibilities). So there really should be some sort of 'punishment' for going into a hazard, even if it happens to be flooded but not deemed GUR.

As Rulefan states, 'proper' courses would send a Greenie/Official out to mark those that are GUR. I actually saw this happen in a Senior Open Qualifier some years ago (after 3 days of torrential rain before the event) - and a list was provided to players/caddies of those deemed GUR.

 

[woody69]

An un-raked bunker is not an Abnormal Ground Condition. So no free relief.

I think he knew that. He was just being tongue in cheek (I assume), in saying that if you get free relief from that, why not from an un-raked bunker as well

 

[duncan mackie]

Can I try? Actually, Duncan normally explains it better than I do.

Abnormal Ground Conditions is the actual overall condition, therefore Rule, that covers a variety of circumstances, many of which would involve a free drop. It's merely WHERE that drop is that differs according to whether it's in a bunker or not. And the rules attempt to make it fair to everyone (and under all possibilities). So there really should be some sort of 'punishment' for going into a hazard, even if it happens to be flooded but not deemed GUR.

As Rulefan states, 'proper' courses would send a Greenie/Official out to mark those that are GUR. I actually saw this happen in a Senior Open Qualifier some years ago (after 3 days of torrential rain before the event) - and a list was provided to players/caddies of those deemed GUR.

Thank you

 

[rickg]

Frilford Heath have a local rule allowing a free drop from water rivulets in bunkers. I'm pretty sure Aldwickbury Park had it as well but I can't find it it on the R&A website. this is from the FH website.


(iii) Bunkers/Abnormal Ground Condition

If a ball comes to rest in a damaged area caused by rivulets, the player must lift and drop without penalty in accordance with Rule 25-1b(ii) except that the nearest point of relief must be in the bunker as near as possible to the spot where the ball lay but not nearer the hole.

 

[rulefan]

Frilford Heath have a local rule allowing a free drop from water rivulets in bunkers. I'm pretty sure Aldwickbury Park had it as well but I can't find it it on the R&A website. this is from the FH website.


(iii) Bunkers/Abnormal Ground Condition

If a ball comes to rest in a damaged area caused by rivulets, the player must lift and drop without penalty in accordance with Rule 25-1b(ii) except that the nearest point of relief must be in the bunker as near as possible to the spot where the ball lay but not nearer the hole.

That is not an uncommon local rule. The word 'rivulet' is probably sufficiently descriptive to identify the area accurately enough.

I don't know if the R&A would approve it.

 

[guest100718]

What about if the rain has washed away sand and the base layer of the bunker is exposed? This happens at our course on a few.