chrisd
Major Champion
All this incurred by a 2 h/c . You'd think low handicappers would know some of the rules!
A slightly complicated incident
- Thread starter chrisd
- Start date
fundy
Ryder Cup Winner
YOu would but plenty dont.
Dad volunteered to be a "ref" at one of the big amateur events at his course recently, he was utterly dumbfounded by some of the questions he got from + handicap golfers, some of the ones he told me would get laughed off the board on here
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
Really? He played a ball he found out on the course - he thought it was one of his provisionals which he could play whereas it was in fact a lost ball. It was just "a ball". I think that matches the definition of wrong ball rather than substituted ball?
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atticusfinch
Challenge Tour Pro
I think rules knowledge is inversely proportional to golf skill. The better you play, the less you know. If you spend all your time getting to a 2 HC there is no study time and no feeling that you need it because your skills are all you need to be an expert golfer.
A frequently encountered comment from a guy who is challenged on a rule: "Son, I've been playing golf for fifty years and have a five handicap. I think I know how to play golf," he says as dropping the ball over his shoulder.
atticusfinch
Challenge Tour Pro
On this side of the pond "a medal" is something awarded as a prize. You'd get funny looks if you asked if some club players were playing a monthly medal.
I've always thought that was the origin of the term as now used over there. A club would award a medal to the winner of a monthly tournament, so the question among (amongst?) players was, "Are you playing for the medal this month?" changes over time to "Are you playing in the medal?"
Strictly speaking, The Open is just an annual medal.
I've always thought that was the origin of the term as now used over there. A club would award a medal to the winner of a monthly tournament, so the question among (amongst?) players was, "Are you playing for the medal this month?" changes over time to "Are you playing in the medal?"
Strictly speaking, The Open is just an annual medal.
atticusfinch
Challenge Tour Pro
I don't think ;playing a provisional leads to that conclusion. The validity of a provisional depends on the player's state of mind at the time he announces it.
Colin L
Tour Winner
A wrong ball is a another ball played when you have a ball in play, a ball provisionally in play or a second ball in play under the Rules. In this instance, the player did not have a ball in play.
A substituted ball is one put into play for a ball in play, lost, out of bounds or lifted. In this instance, the player put a ball into play for a lost ball.
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
As I understand it all the balls were lost as they were not found within 5 mins. In that case it would seem Decision 27/8 - Ball Found After Search Exceeding Five Minutes Is Then Played - would apply indicating that the ball played was a "wrong ball".
Is that not right?
Colin L
Tour Winner
The Definition of a wrong ball includes the original ball when it is no longer in play. In D 27/8, it is the original ball, now "lost', that is played. In the OP's question, it was one of the provisional balls that was found and played.
freddielong
Tour Winner
Which had also been looked for and not found within the time.
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
Thanks Colin. Just want to get this clear in my head. Given that the original ball wasn't found doesn't the provisional become the ball in play even though it too was not found. What is the significance of the Note in the definition of "Wrong Ball" that it includes a substituted ball?
Thanks
Thanks
Colin L
Tour Winner
I must confess that my reasoning in this has been exploratory as it is not a situation I've come across. My argument is therefore entirely based on my application of the Rules to an unfamiliar situation. The potential for redness of face is considerable.
The Note simply clarifies that a substituted ball is a ball in play even if the substitution was wrong. If you make a wrong substitution, the ball is in play and your original ball is out of play and would be a wrong ball if then played.
The Note simply clarifies that a substituted ball is a ball in play even if the substitution was wrong. If you make a wrong substitution, the ball is in play and your original ball is out of play and would be a wrong ball if then played.
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duncan mackie
Money List Winner
I don't think you have read the original post properly.........
The ball played was a wrong ball
"A “wrong ball’’ is any ball other than the player’s:
ball in play;
provisional ball; or
second ball played under Rule 3-3 or Rule 20-7c in stroke play;
and includes:
another player’s ball;
an abandoned ball; and
the player’s original ball when it is no longer in play. "
The ball played came momentarily into play when the original was lost, and then out of play due to 5 mins searching already having elapsed, as did the subsequent provisional.
Basically the original ball, and both provisional balls, would all constitute wrong balls when played in the circumstances described. There is no correct ball in play and the player would have to proceed by returning to the tee to put a ball correctly in play under the rules. As he didn't correct before leaving the putting green he is disqualified.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Yes, it is a wrong ball. I misread the original post thinking, for some reason, the player had put another ball into play.
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
Vindicated !! 
Colin L
Tour Winner
Told you.
It was clearly a mistake to take it that Rulefan was correct and to try to find ways of explaining how.
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duncan mackie
Money List Winner
Told you.
It was clearly a mistake to take it that Rulefan was correct and to try to find ways of explaining how.
chill
there was a loose inference from some of the subsequent posts that the player had dropped another ball as if one, or other, or all, his balls were in the hazard which, combined with the reference to his being about to take a penalty drop in the original post could easily create confusion....:cheers:
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
As an aside to the OP, but leading from a couple of responses, the definition a wrong ball is
"A “wrong ball’’ is any ball other than the player’s:
ball in play;
provisional ball; or
second ball played under Rule 3-3 or Rule 20-7c in stroke play;
and includes:
another player’s ball;
an abandoned ball; and
the player’s original ball when it is no longer in play.
I'd have thought that the bits highlighted red were fully covered by the foregoing section of the definition. So I wonder why it's thought necessary to include them? Anyone got knowledge or suggestions as to reasons why they are there?
"A “wrong ball’’ is any ball other than the player’s:
ball in play;
provisional ball; or
second ball played under Rule 3-3 or Rule 20-7c in stroke play;
and includes:
another player’s ball;
an abandoned ball; and
the player’s original ball when it is no longer in play.
I'd have thought that the bits highlighted red were fully covered by the foregoing section of the definition. So I wonder why it's thought necessary to include them? Anyone got knowledge or suggestions as to reasons why they are there?
Foxholer
Blackballed
Clarification!
Not essential, but helpful.
Would you prefer The Rules to be 'unhelpful'?
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
No, but the rules are generally precisely written and don't usually say more than necessary. This bit just seems rather more "helpful" than normal - and I was wondering if there was any specific reason why that might be?
