A question?

[heronsghyll]

When a competition which requires 3/4 of handicap to be used, what happens to a plus handicap golfer?

I understand the idea of this format is to REDUCE the handicap -

So a 4 handicap golfer would play of 3 and a 12 handicap golfer would play off 8.

If you apply the same principals

A +4 golfer would play off +3 (as 3 is 3/4 of 4) therefore an INCREASE to him of a shot (he gets one back).

I am sure this is not what is supposed to happen so can anyone advise how this works?

I would be greatful for an answer if anyone knows, as it would put an end to a heated debate I had at the weekend, where no-one actually knew the answer and were all guessing.

many thanks in advance.

 

[jammydodger]

I've never been a plus h/c but i would assume a +4 plays off +5. Where's Bob and Jason ?

 

[bluewolf]

i would have thought that seeing as a 3/4 handicap is in place to take off less shots as you approach scratch, then a scratch or better golfer should remain at their current handicap. However I literally know less than nothing and am quite happy to be corrected...

 

[0]

However I literally know less than nothing and am quite happy to be corrected...

LOL made me chuckle........

I would have thought common sense would prevail but I cant work it out either so I'm also in the same camp as above on this one....good question

 

[USER1999]

Plus 4 becomes plus 3 if 3/4 handicap is used. It is odd, but it's the way it is.

 

[birdieman]

It's based around 3/4 of the difference between players handicaps, not 3/4 of an individuals handicap. 3/4 difference only works in matchplay, not strokeplay.

Here's an example:
You play off +3, my handicap is 21. Difference between you and me = 24.

We play in a competition off 3/4 handicaps, so we should have a difference of 18.

3/4 of 21 is 16 (15.75 rounded up)
3/4 of +3 is +2 (2.25 rounded down)
Difference is 18 as required.

If the +3 went to +4 as at first glance seems 'logical' then our difference would actually be 20.

 

[rosecott]

When a competition which requires 3/4 of handicap to be used, what happens to a plus handicap golfer?

I understand the idea of this format is to REDUCE the handicap -

So a 4 handicap golfer would play of 3 and a 12 handicap golfer would play off 8.

If you apply the same principals

A +4 golfer would play off +3 (as 3 is 3/4 of 4) therefore an INCREASE to him of a shot (he gets one back).

I am sure this is not what is supposed to happen so can anyone advise how this works?

I would be greatful for an answer if anyone knows, as it would put an end to a heated debate I had at the weekend, where no-one actually knew the answer and were all guessing.

many thanks in advance.

“CONGU Decision 6(a)
When calculating the number of strokes a plus handicap player should give to the course when other than full allowance is to be applied, the rounding of fractions of a stroke shall be carried out in the usual way by rounding 0.5 of a stroke upwards.
As a handicap of plus is mathematically a minus handicap (below zero), three quarters of a handicap of plus 2 equals -1.5 which rounds upwards to -1 stroke. That stroke should be conceded to the course at the hole allocated stroke index 18.”

Thank goodness I will never have to work that out for myself.

 

[rosecott]

Even with the CONGU decision I quoted, I too am still confused.
If a player is handicap 12, then the course “gives” him 12 shots but “gives” him only 9 if three quarters handicap is being used.
If a player is handicap +4, he “gives” the course 4 shots, but “gives” the course 3 shots if three quarters handicap is being used.
My head is starting to hurt – but I’ve now noticed I’ve become a Journeyman.

 

[Wheyayeman]

We played pairs better ball for our invitation day yesterday and the same question came up with the same blank expressions. We also had the argument over fairness which has just been called further into question

24 handicapper receives 18 shots (loses 6)
4 handicapper receives 3 shots (loses 1)
+4 handicapper receives +3 shots (gains 1)

Doesn't seem fair given the variation in lost shots

 

[Philm]

We played pairs better ball for our invitation day yesterday and the same question came up with the same blank expressions. We also had the argument over fairness which has just been called further into question

24 handicapper receives 18 shots (loses 6)
4 handicapper receives 3 shots (loses 1)
+4 handicapper receives +3 shots (gains 1)

Doesn't seem fair given the variation in lost shots

but thats the very nature of the handicap system.

its to stop the good players winning all the time and to keep the interest of the average once a month golfer.

if i quit my job i think i could give single figures a bashing. but with no time to improve i play 18 every couple of weeks and 9 once a week. so i need my teenage handicap to soack up the nightmare hole LOL

Phil

 

[heronsghyll]

It's based around 3/4 of the difference between players handicaps, not 3/4 of an individuals handicap. 3/4 difference only works in matchplay, not strokeplay.

Here's an example:
You play off +3, my handicap is 21. Difference between you and me = 24.

We play in a competition off 3/4 handicaps, so we should have a difference of 18.

3/4 of 21 is 16 (15.75 rounded up)
3/4 of +3 is +2 (2.25 rounded down)
Difference is 18 as required.

If the +3 went to +4 as at first glance seems 'logical' then our difference would actually be 20.

Birdieman - not completely correct.

I am playing in an Open stableford competition and 3/4 of handicap is to be used. So it has nothing to do with a difference between 2 x people, it is how many shots are allowed for points in the round.

 

[heronsghyll]

Well thanks to everyone for commenting - Rosecot seems to have the answer:

“CONGU Decision 6(a)
When calculating the number of strokes a plus handicap player should give to the course when other than full allowance is to be applied, the rounding of fractions of a stroke shall be carried out in the usual way by rounding 0.5 of a stroke upwards.
As a handicap of plus is mathematically a minus handicap (below zero), three quarters of a handicap of plus 2 equals -1.5 which rounds upwards to -1 stroke. That stroke should be conceded to the course at the hole allocated stroke index 18.”

Personally I think it is wrong - what this is saying is that a +handicap player (A VERY GOOD ONE) gets an advantage over his fellow competitors. When 3/4 is applied he/she will get extra shots whereas everyone one else from 1 upwards loses shots.....?

Although correct - it just seems unfair to me.....?

 

[MashieNiblick]

Plus handicaps get the amount of their + h/cap "reduced" (i.e. have to give up fewer shots) because the purpose of 3/4 h/cap allowance is to give lower handicaps an advantage relative to higher handicaps.

This is from CONGU FAQ's on Decisions.

http://www.congu.com/faqs/decisions.pdf

"Q.9 CONGU® directs a 3/4 handicap format in fourball betterball. Why then should a plus 4 handicap gain a shot and play off plus 3, should he not play off plus 5. Similarly a plus 2 handicap will play off plus 1, should he not play off +3?

A.9 The Council of National Golf Unions directs a 3/4 handicap format in fourball betterball as, statistically, the probability of a pairing achieving net birdies and pars increases as the handicap of the second player gets higher (e.g. a 4&14 handicap pairing is more likely to score better than either 4&4 or a 14&14 pairings). Fractioning redresses this imbalance by giving some advantage to the lowest handicap in the field relative to the rest. Thus the principle is that the maximum "advantage" is given to the lowest handicap and this "advantage" tapers off until at the highest handicap it is zero. Decision 6(a) as stated maintains this principle as the example below illustrate."

(There's a table showing how 3/4 h/c allowance progressively benefits lower handicap players - e.g. a 16 h/capper loses 4 shots, 4 h/capper loses just 1 shot - sorry it wouldn't cut and paste properly)

"When the 3/4 handicap allowance is applied to the gross returns, the net scores result in a progressive bias in favour of the lower handicap player that can only be sustained at the "plus" handicap level by effectively increasing the handicap from +4 to +3.

The 3/4 allowance has been proved to operate satisfactorily in fourball better ball competitions. The above examples, however, clearly show the ‘unfairness’ of conducting a stroke, par or stableford competition by other than full handicap allowance."

So in short 3/4 h/cap is designed to redress balance in 4BBB comps by assisting lower h/caps relative to higher h/caps (think about it, a scratch player doesn't lose any shots) and to extend that to players with plus h/caps you have to penalise them less, not more, hence +4 becomes +3 not +5. As the explanation indicates doing that in a straightforward comp wouldn't be fair so it should only happen in 4BBB.

 

[Wheyayeman]

We played pairs better ball for our invitation day yesterday and the same question came up with the same blank expressions. We also had the argument over fairness which has just been called further into question

24 handicapper receives 18 shots (loses 6)
4 handicapper receives 3 shots (loses 1)
+4 handicapper receives +3 shots (gains 1)

Doesn't seem fair given the variation in lost shots

but thats the very nature of the handicap system.

its to stop the good players winning all the time and to keep the interest of the average once a month golfer.

if i quit my job i think i could give single figures a bashing. but with no time to improve i play 18 every couple of weeks and 9 once a week. so i need my teenage handicap to soack up the nightmare hole LOL

Phil

Think you're missing my point, which is in this particular format the lower handicappers actually benefit compared to the higher handicappers, so you would lose more shots in relation to your handicap than me which doesn't seem right