A Golfers Standing

[Slab]

Yesterday's instance of cheating got me thinking, I've always been aware that golfers as a genre have, either been given or assumed, a standing within sport to strongly suggest that compliance to the rules comes naturally, almost second nature, but I'd like to ask this:

Are people just as likely to cheat in golf as other sports?

I know yesterday wasn't the player but was part of the team so same thing

Is it fair to say we'll abide by the rules only until such time that it suits us to break them?

Do we really have a higher moral compass than other sports (& I know you cant take a compass on the course) or is it simply hidden through the fear/risk of being caught & the perception of what's acceptable?

Don't many golfers also particpate in other sports such as football/rugby where cheating occurs in every game without exception (even claiming for a throw-in when the player knows it came of him last, is a form of cheating) So where does this willingness to cheat at one sport dissapear to when they swap football boots for FJ's

It would seem then that the level of what's acceptable within the community drives compliance to the rules of golf as opposed to any lofty traits shared by those who play the game

Are golfers worthy of this admiration with respect to following the rules or is it simply the enforcement & punishment of those who get caught that keeps the rest of us compliant?
And in fact its the game itself that should be admired as opposed to its participants

 

[thecraw]

A lot of the time in golf its not a blatant attempt to cheat, rather a misunderstanding of the rules!

I'd like to think most are still honest enough to call a double hit etc against themselves. A few years back I called a penalty on myself on a CC play off when a ball came back off the bunker face and hit me. No one else saw it.

I missed qualifying by 1 shot as well!:sbox:

 

[Hobbit]

I think its very much down to what an individual's general character is like. The two (extreme) cheats I've come across in the game weren't people you'd want to sit down for a pint with anyway, before I'd even found out they were cheats.

That aside, maybe golf does police itself by virtue of it being a very visible game, plus the social censure for a golf cheat may stop some who are tempted.

 

[CMAC]

The rules misunderstanding or ignorance of plays a large part, however there are lots of cheats of different degrees in medals and match play at club level.

When you play a bounce game, what do most do when in an unplayable lie? Or when you arrive at your ball and find its actually OB would you take the long walk back?

 

[MashieNiblick]

I think one element is that it is for various reasons easier to cheat in golf; you are your own ref in many cases, and you could very easily improve your lie, claim a found ball is yours, take a generous drop, deliberately mis-count your storkes etc.

However if everyone cheated the game would actually be no fun to play.

So with so much opportunity to cheat there is extra responsibility not to as the game would become a joke and accordingly golf has developed a strong tradition and ethos for honesty.

Interested in comparisions with other sports, especially at "club" as opposed to professional levels. Does it happen much?

One thing about cricket is that it's not regarded as "cheating" if a batsman doesn't walk (which I think is odd as cricket is a by-word for sportsmanship) but in my limited experience batsmen in club cricket are more likely to walk than in a test match.

In answer to Darth's questsions.

Unplayable lie - proceed under Rule 28.

OB - As all the bounce games I play are either Stableford or 4BBB if I haven't played a provo I'm out of the hole one way or another.

 

[CMAC]

In answer to Darth's questsions.


OB - As all the bounce games I play are either Stableford or 4BBB if I haven't played a provo I'm out of the hole one way or another.

The three playing partners are all OB and played provisionals, your partner is OB twice but yours is ok, then when you arrive it's actually rolled OB, it's a bounce game for 50p, people waiting on the tee, do you walk back?

 

[Scadge]

I think its a really interesting thread as I would have played lots of team sports as well as golf and my own behaviour would have been very different in each.

A couple of thoughts occurred to me, only in golf do you declare your own score and so any deliberate rule infringement is cheating yourself in a way which claiming a corner when it was a goal kick can't compare. Also none of the other sports have a clear system of penalties (shot, 2 shots, DQ etc) for rule breaches to which it is quite easy to apply objective tests. Whilst this ensures that the game is played within the rules by and large, it makes it much clearer that a rule infringement is cheating rather than poor conduct. It is much harder to say someone is a cheat at football or rugby than it is to say they are a cheat at golf but as a result when someone is deemed to be a cheat at golf the consequences are so much worse.

 

[Stub]

I spent the last 30 years sailing and racing yachts in offshore races where it is incumbent on the competitors to abide by the rules. In long races, for instance an annual race from the north of England to Holland, the boats are often out of sight of each other for long periods and no-one would know if cheating took place. In 30 years I only encountered 2 instances of suspicious performance that raised the spectre of cheating and both instances involved the same skipper but in different boats. He denied any wrongdoing but the performances of his boats subsequently was not so outstanding so maybe the querying of the results had the desired effect, or maybe he just did better than anyone expected?

Sailing, especially offshore sailing, is self regulating like golf and there is no referee or umpire to enforce the rules.

In contrast, before my sailing career I played rugby in the front row as a hooker for 18 years...you would have been dropped from the team if you refused to cheat! Dog eat dog and the only rule was 'it's our ball and you're not having it'.

Horses for courses I suppose but there will always be people who will take advantage of self regulating regimes and the presence of referees or umpires might engender a feeling that I can try to get away with whatever I can as it is up to the ref to enforce the rules.

In my experience the vast majority of golfers are honest and try their best to abide by the rules...even the ex rugby players!!

 

[MashieNiblick]

The three playing partners are all OB and played provisionals, your partner is OB twice but yours is ok, then when you arrive it's actually rolled OB, it's a bounce game for 50p, people waiting on the tee, do you walk back?

Nope. I'm out the hole. If partner's third is in play he plays on or we conceed the hole/blob and walk to the next tee. Get to the 19th a wee bit quicker!

 

[chris661]

The three playing partners are all OB and played provisionals, your partner is OB twice but yours is ok, then when you arrive it's actually rolled OB, it's a bounce game for 50p, people waiting on the tee, do you walk back?

It's a bounce game, who cares? If it means that much give them the ten bob.

In answer to the original question I dont know about cheating as Craw rightly points out I would guess most of it comes down to not knowing the complexities of the rules, now that shouldn't really matter but the rule book is a mess but that is a different discussion :mmm:

 

[CMAC]

It's a bounce game, who cares? If it means that much give them the ten bob.

You've missed the point Chris. You're right, who cares, we would all walk on and not take it seriously, it's fun isn't it. The ops point was about cheating, in the real world we all 'cheat' in bounce games technically as we don't abide by the strict rules.
It's a fair point by the OP, but common sense prevails I would hope.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I have always found the difference between cheating and telling lies interesting.

I once asked to see a winning card. I then ask the guy partners if he drove the short 4th hole, which was clearly out of his range.
No they both replied.

I watched him fluff his 3rd putt of about 3" He wafted his putter, only just made contact with the ball. then tapped his 4th putt into the hole. His scorer had put down a 4 for that hole. The other player observed what happened.
Who cheated and who lied.

 

[ScienceBoy]

In contrast, before my sailing career I played rugby in the front row as a hooker for 18 years...you would have been dropped from the team if you refused to cheat! Dog eat dog and the only rule was 'it's our ball and you're not having it'.

That's what I like about Rugby, generally if the Ref didn't see it then its OK. The fans rarely blame the ref. The ref is respected because he does the best he can and does not fear things he cannot see.

It disgusts me that in football the ref is constantly blamed and is not respected. Fans dont seem to understand the ref is human and cannot see everything.

Its weird but its better in rugby, yes more cheating occurs but its more gamesmanship than blatant rule breaking.

I personally like the self regulating nature of golf and have always called penalties on myself. Where I have almost got things wrong I feel guitly but usually it turns out I was OK. Would hate to look back and think I actually broke the rules, if I did realise later on I would let someone know ASAP! Even if its a DQ. I just could not live with myself after.

I got away with a lot over my 12 years in rugby, dont feel guilty for one bit. I also never had a bad ref, they were all fair and just!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I've seen both sides of it in golf. Blatant out and out cheating (leather wedges, miscounts etc) and cheating through ignorance in terms of the rules.

I love the fact that the game is self-policing and wouldn't want it any other way. The majority of golfers I've met over 30+ years of playing are upright custodians of the rules and long may it stay so.

 

[swanny32]

Just out of interest, what is "yesterdays instance of cheating"? Have I missed something?

 

[Slab]

Thanks for the replies

Just out of interest, what is "yesterdays instance of cheating"? Have I missed something?

Lara's caddy playing hide & seek with a 15th club off the 2nd fairway & being caught red-handed

 

[swanny32]

Thanks for the replies



Lara's caddy playing hide & seek with a 15th club off the 2nd fairway & being caught red-handed

Ahhh yes, I did read about that. Knob. Lol