9 Hole Comp in Scoring Record

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Canfordhacker

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So golf team back in today and invited questions regarding handicaps. I duly obliged and they have fixed the two issues with my record in a couple of hours. Brilliant. However, I also asked them the following regarding a comp on 6 Jan this year that has a broader impact:-

"It was a 9 hole seniors comp. But it looks like the scores were transferred to Golf England as though it were an 18 hole comp - and as no scores were recorded for the back 9 they all defaulted to nett double bogey, which will grossly inflates the scores and means they don’t make it into people’s top 8 to count for Handicap Index. Won’t be a problem for most, but for those near the top it will. My understanding is that 9 nett pars plus 1 stroke should be added in these circumstances (the equivalent of 17 Stableford points)"

The answer I got back to that one was "as it was only a 9-hole event and, previous to the introduction of the WHS, 9-hole events weren’t classed as qualifiers - so best thing to do is it leave it as is."

Thoughts?
 

rulefan

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The reply was wrong. As I understand it, in the CDH 9 hole scores were converted into an 18 hole stableford score according to a built in CONGU formula which included an arbitrary stoke index allocation. It's all in Clause 22 which to be frank I have never tried to understand.
This 18 hole score was treated as an 18 hole score during the transition - sometimes coming out with an unexpected result. My wife had three 9 hole comps in her record and I have not been able to work out exactly what it did in either system.
 
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rosecott

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The reply was wrong. As I understand it, in the CDH 9 hole scores were converted into an 18 hole stableford score according to a built in CONGU formula which included an arbitrary stoke index allocation. It's all in Clause 22 which to be frank I have never tried to understand.
This 18 hole score was treated as an 18 hole score during the transition - sometimes coming out with an unexpected result. My wife had three 9 hole comps in her record and I have not been able to work out exactly what it did in either system.
There is also the possibility that 9-hole qualifiers under EG/CONGU rules were not properly set up and this was a non-qualifier
 
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Canfordhacker

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Thanks gents. But either way, surely it shouldn't just be left? Either remove it as per Rosecott, or make it an 18 holer as per Rulefan?
 

louise_a

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We run 9 hole cpomps every week alongside our 18 hole ones, we had a SSS for our front 9, I did ask before WHS came in what was happening wirth 9 hole cards and was told it would be done after WHS started, as far as I can see nothing as yet been done
 

jim8flog

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Under the UHS for a 9 hole comp (stableford scoring) you would have had 18 points added to the actual score to make an 18 hole score for handicap purposes.

This is from memory as I have deleted the UHS manual from my computer.
 

rulefan

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Under the UHS for a 9 hole comp (stableford scoring) you would have had 18 points added to the actual score to make an 18 hole score for handicap purposes.

This is from memory as I have deleted the UHS manual from my computer.
PRINCIPAL CHANGES INTRODUCED IN THE 2016 REVISION
Qualifying nine-hole score recording: Playing better than or to the buffer zone still requires 18 points to be added to achieve a similar 18-hole outcome and for players within their buffer zones or better this points total continues to be recorded on the handicap record. For handicap purposes only, however, players returning a score outside the buffer zone have their points total doubled on their handicap record to avoid the occurrence of anomalies within the Annual Review process.
 

Swango1980

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So golf team back in today and invited questions regarding handicaps. I duly obliged and they have fixed the two issues with my record in a couple of hours. Brilliant. However, I also asked them the following regarding a comp on 6 Jan this year that has a broader impact:-

"It was a 9 hole seniors comp. But it looks like the scores were transferred to Golf England as though it were an 18 hole comp - and as no scores were recorded for the back 9 they all defaulted to nett double bogey, which will grossly inflates the scores and means they don’t make it into people’s top 8 to count for Handicap Index. Won’t be a problem for most, but for those near the top it will. My understanding is that 9 nett pars plus 1 stroke should be added in these circumstances (the equivalent of 17 Stableford points)"

The answer I got back to that one was "as it was only a 9-hole event and, previous to the introduction of the WHS, 9-hole events weren’t classed as qualifiers - so best thing to do is it leave it as is."

Thoughts?
This implies (bit in bold) that the competition was NOT a qualifier when processed back in January under the old system. If that is the case, it wouldn't count for WHS anyway. If not the case, and it was actually a qualifier, I do not understand the answer you were given?
 

rosecott

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We run 9 hole cpomps every week alongside our 18 hole ones, we had a SSS for our front 9, I did ask before WHS came in what was happening wirth 9 hole cards and was told it would be done after WHS started, as far as I can see nothing as yet been done
I have finally had a response from EG on 9-hole counting comps. Check on the WHS platform which courses are shown. If the 9-hole courses are not shown, you need to ask EG/WHS to insert them.

Here is their response:

"Course changes, for example adding 9 hole courses to WHS Platform, need to emailed in to whs.support@englandgolf.org with specific requirements, e.g. White Men F9, together with copies of Course measurement certificate, scorecard and Slope Certificate. "
 
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Canfordhacker

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This implies (bit in bold) that the competition was NOT a qualifier when processed back in January under the old system. If that is the case, it wouldn't count for WHS anyway. If not the case, and it was actually a qualifier, I do not understand the answer you were given?
This is exactly why i am asking the question. To my mind it wasn't a qualifier - so why was it uploaded to WHS, where it is currently sitting on 42 people's scoring record? Doing nothing (IMHO) is not an option. I am continuing the dialog but not hopeful.
 

Swango1980

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This is exactly why i am asking the question. To my mind it wasn't a qualifier - so why was it uploaded to WHS, where it is currently sitting on 42 people's scoring record? Doing nothing (IMHO) is not an option. I am continuing the dialog but not hopeful.
It is an interesting question. I assumed that ANY scores transported to the WHS platform were taken directly from CDH, and that CDH only contains qualifying scores. So, although I'm virtually certain that is the case, happy to be told otherwise.

If I am correct above, then this 9-hole round would have been a qualifier back in January. So, question is, was it processed correctly under CONGU back then, but under WHS the software has not got the process correct. BUT, response you got that I highlighted in bold previously doesn't make any sense.

If it wasn't a qualifier back in January, then I can see no reason why it would even appear on WHS unless someone was manually entering scores beyond what came from CDH. Obviously, this should not have been done, it was not a qualifier after all.

So, probably not helped you, and I am as perplexed as you now. I guess the only thing I can say is that the answer you got just does not make any sense to me, whichever angle you approach it from.
 

rulefan

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Non-qualifiers were/are recorded in the CDH. I can see umpteen on the screen in front of me. The first letter of the code is 'N'.
 

Swango1980

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Non-qualifiers were/are recorded in the CDH. I can see umpteen on the screen in front of me. The first letter of the code is 'N'.
Ahh, ok. Interesting then if WHS picked up 9 hole non qualifiers as Acceptable Rounds, but not 18 hole non qualifiers. Or maybe this is just a weird case, nothing to do with it being 9 holes
 
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