9 hole cards for handicap

[Deleted member 3432]

Their experience and ability are pretty irrelevant. The ratings are based on many elements of objective data related to 'model' scratch and bogey players. (eg proximity of obstacles (bunkers say) to landing areas. Depth of bunkers. Level or sloping stance. Fairway/rough cut length. Green speed. Green contours. Green size ..........). You name it, it is measured.
However, in practice they will be pretty experienced with a range of handicaps and will have been trained.

Thanks, thats very interesting.

One final question, are the courses rated by an individual or a team?

 

[patricks148]

Didn't realise this but our front 9 is rated.
9th green as far away from clubhouse as it gets so don't really see the point....

Same here, the 9th green is as far from the clubhouse as you can get and still be on the course, not sure why you would bother?

 

[rulefan]

Thanks, thats very interesting.

One final question, are the courses rated by an individual or a team?

A team. Usually of 3 or 4.
It can take as long to rate as to play, depending on how many tees (colours) are involved and the paperwork may take as long again.

 

[Voyager EMH]

My course,
18 holes is 70.8 and 132. Par 70.
Front 9 is 35.6 and 126. Par 35.
Back 9 is 35.2 and 138. Par 35.

My handicap index is 2.5.

A gross 74 (4 over par) for 18 gives me a differential of 2.7. Almost bang-on my handicap.

A gross 37 (2 over par) for the front nine gives me a differential of 3.4.

37 on the front nine is 1.4 more than what a scratch player should shoot, yet I am given a differential of 3.4.

Unlike 18-hole scores, different differentials are allocated to players with different handicaps despite the gross scores being the same, because a “dummy” nine holes is added to the nine played. This score is 9 net pars plus one shot around the same nine holes.

I have a CH of 3 for the 18 hole course. But for the front nine only I have a 9-hole CH of 2 and an 18-hole (based on twice round the front nine) CH of 4.
In these calculations the (Course Rating – Par) is used.
So my “dummy” nine holes is 3 over par.

I am 3 over par standing on the first tee before I start my round of nine holes.

I need to shoot one over par on the front nine to achieve a differential of 2.5. One over par is only 0.4 of a shot more than what a scratch player should shoot.

If I were to card a succession of 9-hole scores, I believe I would end up with a much inflated handicap for playing 18-hole competitions.
The higher my handicap would go up, the higher my differentials would be when returning the same gross 9-hole scores. Up, up and away!

THE FORMULAS ARE DEEPLY FLAWED. (Unless I’ve made a mistake somewhere)

I say this as someone who is a strong supporter of the new system in general.

So no, I will not be submitting nine hole scores for handicap assessment and adjustment.

 

[Springveldt]

My course,
18 holes is 70.8 and 132. Par 70.
Front 9 is 35.6 and 126. Par 35.
Back 9 is 35.2 and 138. Par 35.

My handicap index is 2.5.

A gross 74 (4 over par) for 18 gives me a differential of 2.7. Almost bang-on my handicap.

A gross 37 (2 over par) for the front nine gives me a differential of 3.4.

37 on the front nine is 1.4 more than what a scratch player should shoot, yet I am given a differential of 3.4.

Unlike 18-hole scores, different differentials are allocated to players with different handicaps despite the gross scores being the same, because a “dummy” nine holes is added to the nine played. This score is 9 net pars plus one shot around the same nine holes.

I have a CH of 3 for the 18 hole course. But for the front nine only I have a 9-hole CH of 2 and an 18-hole (based on twice round the front nine) CH of 4.
In these calculations the (Course Rating – Par) is used.
So my “dummy” nine holes is 3 over par.

I am 3 over par standing on the first tee before I start my round of nine holes.

I need to shoot one over par on the front nine to achieve a differential of 2.5. One over par is only 0.4 of a shot more than what a scratch player should shoot.

If I were to card a succession of 9-hole scores, I believe I would end up with a much inflated handicap for playing 18-hole competitions.
The higher my handicap would go up, the higher my differentials would be when returning the same gross 9-hole scores. Up, up and away!

THE FORMULAS ARE DEEPLY FLAWED. (Unless I’ve made a mistake somewhere)

I say this as someone who is a strong supporter of the new system in general.

So no, I will not be submitting nine hole scores for handicap assessment and adjustment.

I think this is a product of you being a low index. It seems if you are a really low index player then you get screwed over by the dummy back 9 calculation. For me, being a 6.0 index, playing 9 holes works out at around my handicap differential.

Index 6.0 - CH 7
Front 9 - 35/136 par 35
Back 9 - 36.1/142 par 35

If I play the front 9 in 38 (which is to handicap on the full 18) I get a differential of 2.5 which scales to 5.8 when including the dummy back 9, so it's close to my index.
Back 9 in 39 give me 2.3 which scales to 6.2, again pretty close to my index but strangely higher than the easier front 9.

So for me it's actually beneficial to play the front 9 if I was putting in a 9 hole score which seems a bit stupid as 39 on the back is a much better score than 38 on the front in my mind.

EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure the online calculator I found is correct as it's not asking for the par, course rating and slope of the other 9 holes. Guess I need to look into it a bit more.

 

[rulefan]

EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure the online calculator I found is correct as it's not asking for the par, course rating and slope of the other 9 holes. Guess I need to look into it a bit more.

Why would it need info re the 9 you are not playing?

 

[Springveldt]

Why would it need info re the 9 you are not playing?

Wasn't sure if it used the other 9 as the dummy 9 or if it just redid the one you had played? If it's simulating a full 18 holes and assigning you ((2nd Nine Par + Player’s 2nd Nine CH Strokes + 1) – 2nd Nine CR)) as your differential for them then surely it's fairer to simulate that score against the other 9 which will likely have a different course rating and slope? That way it simulates you have played the full course.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Wasn't sure if it used the other 9 as the dummy 9 or if it just redid the one you had played? If it's simulating a full 18 holes and assigning you ((2nd Nine Par + Player’s 2nd Nine CH Strokes + 1) – 2nd Nine CR)) as your differential for them then surely it's fairer to simulate that score against the other 9 which will likely have a different course rating and slope? That way it simulates you have played the full course.

Your "dummy" nine holes is the same nine as played. You will have a 9-hole CH and an 18-hole CH (twice round the same 9). Subtract one from the other, add one and add to par for your dummy nine holes. Add your score for nine and your dummy nine then work out your differential for twice round the same nine.

In your example above, par and CR are the same for your front nine, so (CR - par) is zero making the calculations simpler.

In your example I believe your CH for 9 is 4 and CH for 18 is 7. So your dummy nine is 35 + (7-4) + 1 = 39.

So you are 4 over par standing on the first tee. Then you shoot 3-over 38...

(39 + 38 -70) x 113/136 = 5.8

But these type of results vary quite wildly depending on your HI and whether your dummy nine CH is the same as your CH for the nine played or one less - as in your case.

I've never used an app for this. Just the formulas in the book. Best way to learn how it works, I believe.

NB: There is no "stand alone" differential for 9 holes as far as I know - you must add a dummy nine.

 

[chellie]

Most of my scores this year have been from nine hole competitions due to the change in my working pattern. I've managed 9 x 18 holes and 12 x 9 holes so far

 

[williamalex1]

Your "dummy" nine holes is the same nine as played. You will have a 9-hole CH and an 18-hole CH (twice round the same 9). Subtract one from the other, add one and add to par for your dummy nine holes. Add your score for nine and your dummy nine then work out your differential for twice round the same nine.

In your example above, par and CR are the same for your front nine, so (CR - par) is zero making the calculations simpler.

In your example I believe your CH for 9 is 4 and CH for 18 is 7. So your dummy nine is 35 + (7-4) + 1 = 39.

So you are 4 over par standing on the first tee. Then you shoot 3-over 38...

(39 + 38 -70) x 113/136 = 5.8

But these type of results vary quite wildly depending on your HI and whether your dummy nine CH is the same as your CH for the nine played or one less - as in your case.

I've never used an app for this. Just the formulas in the book. Best way to learn how it works, I believe.

NB: There is no "stand alone" differential for 9 holes as far as I know - you must add a dummy nine.

How do you work out stableford points for 9 holes using the 18 hole card stroke index , our odd numbers are on the front 9 even numbers on the back 9. We had to have 9 holes measured with their own index

 

[Voyager EMH]

I think this is a product of you being a low index. It seems if you are a really low index player then you get screwed over by the dummy back 9 calculation. For me, being a 6.0 index, playing 9 holes works out at around my handicap differential.

Index 6.0 - CH 7
Front 9 - 35/136 par 35
Back 9 - 36.1/142 par 35

If I play the front 9 in 38 (which is to handicap on the full 18) I get a differential of 2.5 which scales to 5.8 when including the dummy back 9, so it's close to my index.
Back 9 in 39 give me 2.3 which scales to 6.2, again pretty close to my index but strangely higher than the easier front 9.

So for me it's actually beneficial to play the front 9 if I was putting in a 9 hole score which seems a bit stupid as 39 on the back is a much better score than 38 on the front in my mind.

EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure the online calculator I found is correct as it's not asking for the par, course rating and slope of the other 9 holes. Guess I need to look into it a bit more.

I think you've hit the nail on the head.
It is the 9 net pars plus one shot that is the killer. The "plus one shot" for me is 50% of my handicap for that 9 holes. This is out of scale with one shot for an 18-handicapper, for example, when the consequential differentials are calculated. Rather than a flat one shot added for everyone, it should be scaled according to handicap. And certainly not 50% which is ridiculous. I would suggest 10% of 9-hole CH is better. So my 37 would become scaled to 74.2 rather than 75 giving me a differential of 2.7 rather than 3.4.

I've just looked at my record of scores. I played in a 9-hole comp last Sept over our front nine. I shot 37.
I was given a differential of 4.3 because my HI (although none of us knew it at the time) was higher than it is now.
This DOES NOT HAPPEN with 18 hole scores. You get the same differential for gross score whatever your handicap.

Quite definitely NO, I will not be submitting 9-hole scores.

 

[Voyager EMH]

How do you work out stableford points for 9 holes using the 18 hole card stroke index , our odd numbers are on the front 9 even numbers on the back 9. We had to have 9 holes measured with their own index

If it is a 9-hole stableford competition you will have a 9-hole CH calculated. Then 95% of that for your 9-hole playing handicap. So if this is 6, for example, you take your shots on the 6 lowest SI holes on that nine.

 

[williamalex1]

If it is a 9-hole stableford competition you will have a 9-hole CH calculated. Then 95% of that for your 9-hole playing handicap. So if this is 6, for example, you take your shots on the 6 lowest SI holes on that nine.

I understand now, thanks