7/7 Memorial vandalised on anniversary!!!

[chris661]

I do think some posters need to tread very carefully with this thread before it all starts getting silly.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Also, laws. The fact that some sharia laws can be used for banking etc, if you go to a Muslim country you abide by their laws. I don't believe it racist in ANY way to expect the same.

I can't argue with the Schools thing, as I don't know enough about the actual decisions that were made, and why they were made.

With regards the banking though, I think you might be mistaken (but will admity my knowledge isn't complete so happy to defer to a banking expert).

By my undertsanding, there are a number of Islamic banks, and they in no way break any of the laws. They just differ in that they won't charge interest, and it's in the interest of both parties to be a success. The more I learn about it, the more it seems a significantly better way to run a banking system, and I'm actually rather jealous!!

 

[Papas1982]

I can't argue with the Schools thing, as I don't know enough about the actual decisions that were made, and why they were made.

With regards the banking though, I think you might be mistaken (but will admity my knowledge isn't complete so happy to defer to a banking expert).

By my undertsanding, there are a number of Islamic banks, and they in no way break any of the laws. They just differ in that they won't charge interest, and it's in the interest of both parties to be a success. The more I learn about it, the more it seems a significantly better way to run a banking system, and I'm actually rather jealous!!

pin not saying that there is any benefit afforded to them, simply that Britain is now taken a religion into account when setting out rules and it isn't the religion that is apparently the main one of this country.

I have no no dislike to Muslims, I work in transport with 80% of people I seeing being Muslim (Turkish). I just don't think that a country should reform itself to better suit a repelegion. And as said, Muslim States wouldn't do the same.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

pin not saying that there is any benefit afforded to them, simply that Britain is now taken a religion into account when setting out rules and it isn't the religion that is apparently the main one of this country.

I have no no dislike to Muslims, I work in transport with 80% of people I seeing being Muslim (Turkish). I just don't think that a country should reform itself to better suit a repelegion. And as said, Muslim States wouldn't do the same.

But these rules, where Britain takes into account Islam, has no affect/effect on the Christian population. It allows Muslims to act in a certain way, but this is in no way detrimental to the remaining non-Islam population. So why shouldn't we let them act as they wish? If their way of banking was in fact detrimental, and had a negative effect on the rest of the country, then clearly we have an issue, but it isn't.

I'm yet to see any one raise anything where "Muslims" have been allowed to do things that harm the rest of the country.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I genuinely wish more Muslims were in parliament simply as I'd hope they'd use a bit of common sense and reject some of the ridiculous ideas and policies we follow as to not offend them. Restaurants only serving halal and cancelling pork for etc. I'm all for their right to choose but why is ours taken away?

My take on the Muslim race 'taking over,' is this. What nationality are your Muslim friends? As most I've spoken to consider themselves Muslim not of any particular race, surely that's a religion who's idea it is to be all powerful?

They are mixed nationalities - the ones born in this country call themselves British

 

[Deleted member 15344]

They do it at schools too, they were just examples there are others out there too. No Christmas lights etc, I'm not religious in the slightest but accept this was once a very Christian state.

Also, laws. The fact that some sharia laws can be used for banking etc, if you go to a Muslim country you abide by their laws. I don't believe it racist in ANY way to expect the same.

Again aren't you just using isolated incidents as opposed to the norm.

 

[woody69]

I can't argue with the Schools thing, as I don't know enough about the actual decisions that were made, and why they were made.

With regards the banking though, I think you might be mistaken (but will admity my knowledge isn't complete so happy to defer to a banking expert).

By my undertsanding, there are a number of Islamic banks, and they in no way break any of the laws. They just differ in that they won't charge interest, and it's in the interest of both parties to be a success. The more I learn about it, the more it seems a significantly better way to run a banking system, and I'm actually rather jealous!!

He is. It is simply a product that is offered by one of the banks to allow people who want that product to not be charged, or receive interest on their accounts. It's no different to greedy old me who wants the product that offers the largest return I can possibly get from the banks. The bank has Muslim customers and has seen an opportunity to offer them a service. That's it. It's called a choice.

 

[woody69]

Well it was dirty and they may well have been English, I didn't suggest they weren't did I? If the Women left sitting on the beach in their robes and head covers is reflection of 'other cultures' then Yes, I am intolerant to them.

As a side note. I see the European Court of Human Rights has upheld France in their banning Muslim full-face veil the niqab in public places. Hopefully we will follow France's lead.

No they haven't. They have banned the use of clothing that prevents people from being identified because their face is covered. It's no different than if some white, Christian fellow decided he wanted to put on a Robocop mask. He would be asked to remove it and if he refused, he would be fined and charged with a crime.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But these rules, where Britain takes into account Islam, has no affect/effect on the Christian population. It allows Muslims to act in a certain way, but this is in no way detrimental to the remaining non-Islam population. So why shouldn't we let them act as they wish? If their way of banking was in fact detrimental, and had a negative effect on the rest of the country, then clearly we have an issue, but it isn't.

I'm yet to see any one raise anything where "Muslims" have been allowed to do things that harm the rest of the country.

Very well said - the UK hasn't reformed to suit a religion - it is flexible to allow people of all religions to abide by their beliefs - nothing is "forced" upon anyone

 

[woody69]

Again aren't you just using isolated incidents as opposed to the norm.

And also using mythical, made up incidents perpuated via social media and the Internet that serve little purpose other than try to persuade us to take these quite ridiculous views.

 

[woody69]

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.~Edmund Burke (1729-1797).

Just think on !!!!!

Is it irony that in the eyes of an extremist you are the evil one? Guess they're doing something about it though so perhaps we can assume they are winning.

 

[Snelly]

There are several arguments wrapped up in this thread. The key elements relate to Islam and integration of immigrant populations from all points of the globe. It is a complex subject with many facets and the answers are not going to be found on a golf forum.

However, I do find it surprising to see such a spirited defence of multicultural Britain when the evidence of it failing in many areas is so obvious. A cursory search on Google against the term "Sheffield Roma Problems" will give you hundreds of articles that show how the lack of integration of this immigrant group is causing major social issues. And it is not a unique example. There are genuine issues to be addressed in every major city that relate to the lack of integration by immigrant populations.

I am sure that multicultural Bournemouth is a fabulous place to live where you can get a fantastic ethnic meal of any kind and send your children to a school with all kinds of interesting children from all over the world. But that isn't quite the same as feeling like an outsider in the home you have had for 50 years in Page Hall in Sheffield, where a group of Roma men stand outside your drive each day, talking, smoking, spitting and dropping litter.

I find much of Islam to be intolerant, certainly misogynistic and certain elements to be downright barbaric - female genital mutilation for example. If that makes me Islamaphobic then so be it.

I would wholly support a ban on the burka too and read a very good article by Alison Pearson on this subject last week. You can read it here - worth checking out and I agree with her views entirely.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...g-the-burka-is-not-racist-its-a-kindness.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...rkas-cast-a-veil-over-us-all-so-ban-them.html

 

[Papas1982]

And also using mythical, made up incidents perpuated via social media and the Internet that serve little purpose other than try to persuade us to take these quite ridiculous views.

I don't have a ridiculous view, I have at no point said I have a problem with Muslims or the religion. Well no more than any other religion as I think it's all rubbish. But are you suggesting that no incidents, however isolated have occurred.

My my opinion is that if you choose to live in a country, you abide by their rules, not ask for them to be changed.

I dont know know all the banking procedures, but does anyone know if it's possible to attain a non 'Muslim' style account in a Muslim country for example?

obviosuly wi second and 3rd generation followers now, simply saying don't move here doesn't work and I accept that. I just don't think that religion should play any part in legal society and it does exist.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I don't have a ridiculous view, I have at no point said I have a problem with Muslims or the religion. Well no more than any other religion as I think it's all rubbish. But are you suggesting that no incidents, however isolated have occurred.

My my opinion is that if you choose to live in a country, you abide by their rules, not ask for them to be changed.

I dont know know all the banking procedures, but does anyone know if it's possible to attain a non 'Muslim' style account in a Muslim country for example?

obviosuly wi second and 3rd generation followers now, simply saying don't move here doesn't work and I accept that. I just don't think that religion should play any part in legal society and it does exist.

What rules have asked to be changed ?

And yes you can have a "non Muslim" account in a Muslim country - my parents had such an account whilst living in Saudi.


And yes Snelly - Roma communities are causing trouble around not just Sheffield but other areas of the country and they will refuse to intergrate correctly and feel they are above the law.

There are areas within the Islam religion that is shocking just as there have been areas within Christianity that have been shocking

Religious problems is certainly not limited to Islam and Christianity itself has been responsible for millions of deaths over the centuries

 

[MattM]

But that isn't quite the same as feeling like an outsider in the home you have had for 50 years in Page Hall in Sheffield, where a group of Roma men stand outside your drive each day, talking, smoking, spitting and dropping litter.

That situation is replicated in many areas but with "a group of white British teenagers" rather than any particular minority. That isn't a multicultural issue.

I find much of Islam to be intolerant, certainly misogynistic and certain elements to be downright barbaric - female genital mutilation for example.

And your feelings on Male genital mutilation practiced widely by other religions / societies / predominantly 'white' countries?

(This is by no means a criticism of those other religions / societies or to down play female genital mutilation)

And - I find most Religious 'fanatics' (whatever their religion) to be intolerant and mysogynistic.

 

[Papas1982]

What rules have asked to be changed ?

And yes you can have a "non Muslim" account in a Muslim country - my parents had such an account whilst living in Saudi.


And yes Snelly - Roma communities are causing trouble around not just Sheffield but other areas of the country and they will refuse to intergrate correctly and feel they are above the law.

There are areas within the Islam religion that is shocking just as there have been areas within Christianity that have been shocking

Religious problems is certainly not limited to Islam and Christianity itself has been responsible for millions of deaths over the centuries

From what I can remember from previous posts, will righting now now adhere to sharia law for a start. I'm not suggesting it is causing any problem to the legal system. I'm just saying that I don't think that religion should be allowed to interfere. As much as the ups legal system may derive from a Christian background (or not as haven't looked into it too much). I simply belive that England's laws are England's laws and don't need to be changed to suit an other.

Re the accounts in Saudi, I'll admit to be susprised, although as has been countered when I raised the subject, it makes business sense. I wonder what will happen with sponsorship of Qatar World Cup, alcohol being major sponsors. Or money men pay FIFA to stop advertising bud etc.

I fully agree that Islam has caused no more conflict than any totter in the past. But I do genuinely believe that most religions have adapted more with modern society than Islam. at the very least it comes across as a much more sexist religion ( I base this in seing how 15-40 Muslim men deal with women in our office every day. Not just a few I've met.

 

[User20205]

2 points, the Sheffield example is an extreme, you can't cite extremes as the norm. I'm not denying it, but it's not a good example of multicultural uk.
Also you can't promote an inclusive, equitable society by banning stuff

 

[Snelly]

And your feelings on Male genital mutilation practiced widely by other religions / societies / predominantly 'white' countries?

My feeling is that they are not quite the same thing, not done for the same reasons and anyone making any equation between the two needs to do more research.

 

[Snelly]

2 points, the Sheffield example is an extreme, you can't cite extremes as the norm. I'm not denying it, but it's not a good example of multicultural uk.
Also you can't promote an inclusive, equitable society by banning stuff

2 further points.

No, the Sheffield example is not isolated.

Yes, you can promote an inclusive,equitable society by "liberating women by criminalising their clothing because you send out a strong message that garments that have nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with grotesque misogyny and the treatment of females as second-class citizens, have no place in a modern democracy. If the state bans such clothing then the hope is that young women will gradually be empowered to hold out against it, and attitudes within their community will have to change."

Quote from Alison Pearson and I totally agree.

 

[chrisd]

I don't remember being asked by anybody if I was in favour of turning our country into a multi cultural multi racial society, was anybody else awake when that particular question was asked?