wjemather
Well-known member
If you analyse the hole scores of high handicappers, it will be readily apparent how many holes can be won with bogey or worse. They are easy wins for a low handicapper.
54 Handicappers - Scourge or Scarcity ?
- Thread starter nickjdavis
- Start date
D
Deleted member 23270
Guest
I have just checked our competition results back to August. There have been 4 guys (one guy twice) who are 'Cat 1' players in the top 10 in all those comps. We have a lot of very low players (60+ off 5 or less) but it is just not possible to score 42 points or more to have a chance. It is no surprise that none of us enter any of the handicap knockout competitions any more.
AliMc
Well-known member
Have to say I'm very much the same as regards matchplay comps, haven't played in them for a long time, the final one was playing off 6 I think and being around 1 or 2 over when shaking hands on the 14th, it was the last of many such drubbings, just not worth bothering any more
D
Deleted member 23270
Guest
My last attempt I was giving 16 shots. I played out of my skin and was pleased to take the guy to the 16th!
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Something seems amiss
Not only are folks with high handicaps routinely turning it on in comps at your course but somehow after 600 rounds by ‘cat 1’ players on their home course, only 4 times did one get 42 points, that’s weird
Rlburnside
Challenge Tour Pro
Why are so many low guys not playing match play anymore when the stats show they have a better chance of winning?
I get that some have had bad experiences in the past but out of all the match play games they’ve had they must of done better against higher h/cs
I’m off 18 and played 3 match play games against 5hc and below this season I won 1 and that went to extra holes to a mate of mine who was carrying a injury the 2 others I was well beat and was never in the games.
I get that some have had bad experiences in the past but out of all the match play games they’ve had they must of done better against higher h/cs
I’m off 18 and played 3 match play games against 5hc and below this season I won 1 and that went to extra holes to a mate of mine who was carrying a injury the 2 others I was well beat and was never in the games.
Crow
Crow Person
Strange isn't it?
I'm a mid-handicapper, often cited as the most dangerous in matchplay, and have been entering matchplay competitions for years and have never won one.
Maybe I should boo-hoo and declare I'm not entering any more as it's not fair.
D
Deleted member 23270
Guest
How did you come to those figures?
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
I made an assumption on number of comps in your timeline since Aug (10) with your stat of cat 1 players
(but yeah I suppose, "all those comps" might mean I'm actually a little conservative)
D
Deleted member 23270
Guest
Way off the mark I'm afraid. Lots of low players avoid handicap competitions because they have virtually no chance of winning. I'd need to shoot around 65/66 to have a chance.
Swango1980
Well-known member
I suspect this is something lower handicappers struggle to accept, and I potentially see their point of view. They could go out and play a really fantastic round for their own ability, but if the high handicapper does the same, the low handicapper will find it impossible to match. In fact, it sometimes feels like even if the low handicapper is on top form, the high handicapper only needs to be reasonably adequate from their point of view to win the match. What would seem more acceptable, would be that if a low handicapper had a fantastic day, and the high handicapper had a fantastic day, the match could genuinely go either way.
However, I also appreciate that, on any given match, it seems that the lower handicapper will edge it in terms of probability of winning. Because, there is statistically a bigger chance that the high handicapper will not have one of their better days, and as they start shooting their worse scores, it becomes easier for the low handicapper to win, even if they are also as relatively poor.
That being said, in a match play competition, a player will have to negotiate several rounds, I don't know, maybe 5 or 6 rounds of golf? The lower the handicapper you are, the more likely you'll be up against higher handicappers. So, the more matches they play, the increased likelihood that they'll come up against a higher handicapper who plays well. So, it becomes more and more likely they'll come up against an unbeatable opponent at some point (and that probably increases as rounds go on, as presumably their opponents have also shown form to get there in most cases). So, evaluating the individual match, perhaps they have a 60% chance of winning. But, conversely to that, the more matches they have to play, the increased liklihood they will come up against an opponent who has a blinder and shoots an unbeatable score.
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Ah, my apologies
Yup I see now that if lots of cat 1 players avoid the comps then it's no surprise to hear that cat 1 players have only got four top 10s in recent comps
Regardless of the odds... You gotta be in it to win it
sunshine
Well-known member
Had a look at the handicap list at my club...
40 golfers playing off 54! Although 22 are juniors.
And another 40 playing off 36-53. Only 3 men and 4 juniors, 33 women.
I didn't recognise any of the names, I'm sure none of these people play in comps at the weekend.
Someone with a HI of 54 is playing off 60. If your best rounds are 130+, you would surely have the self awareness not to clog up the course at peak time.
40 golfers playing off 54! Although 22 are juniors.
And another 40 playing off 36-53. Only 3 men and 4 juniors, 33 women.
I didn't recognise any of the names, I'm sure none of these people play in comps at the weekend.
Someone with a HI of 54 is playing off 60. If your best rounds are 130+, you would surely have the self awareness not to clog up the course at peak time.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Was that when it went to full difference.
I was 1 over par gross on 15 th and got a spanking a couple of times.
So just don’t bother now.
But I have to say imo it’s not the 54 / 40 or even the 30+ cappers that are the problem.
It’s guys off 15 to 20 under Congu that now find they have gone up quite a few shots under WHS.
They are the ones doing the big scores .
Rlburnside
Challenge Tour Pro
I had a Congo h/c of 18 and have not gone up any shots under WHS.
Maybe im a exception to the rule
Swango1980
Well-known member
What is your Index?
Every individual is different. But, on average, at my club, previous handicappers in single figures went up by about 0.4ish, whereas higher handicappers in 20's to 30's went up by over 3 shots. Basically, handicaps increased roughly by the function of Slope.
That was comparing old handicap with new course handicap. Also only compared golfers with 20 or more scores, as golfers with fewer often had bigger increases after WHS
Rlburnside
Challenge Tour Pro
In
Index is 16.8 I’ve had 27 competition scores this year, lowest index has been 16.3
Index is 16.8 I’ve had 27 competition scores this year, lowest index has been 16.3
Swango1980
Well-known member
What was your Congu handicap?
AliMc
Well-known member
Guy who beat me was off about 11 or 12 I think when he really should have been off around 7 or 8, he won the winter pairs 2 years in a row, one of these folk who have won a few matchplay comps but can't seem to do it in medals apparently
HeftyHacker
Well-known member
To be fair I play with a lad like that. Plays off 11 at the moment but is capable of going round under par on his day.
His problem is if he has one bad hole his head completely goes and he loses interest, if that happens early on in a round (our second is one of the hardest holes on the course) then he ends up posting a shocker.
The upside is that he's brilliant in matchplay or as a 4bbb partner. I played with him the other week in a 4bbb and he shot a 3over gross. The week before he'd done the same (was actually 3 under at the turn) with another mate. He won both weeks.
Under Congu he'd probably have crept up to an 8 handicap this year but WHS has meant his HI has increased by 4 to 11.
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