4BBB matchplay Wrong Ball

[Jorton]

Hi, just after some guidance on this one if anyone can help out? Apologies for the long narrative

Players A and B are playing C and D. Players C&D are one down after 8.

Playing the 9th today all four players played their shots into the same blind portion of the fairway. Player A plays his ball onto the right side of the green. Player C (who has a shot on this hole) plays his ball to the back of the green. Player B plays his shot to the front of the green and Player D misses the green to lefthand side. Player D then chips to then hole finishing some three feet past. Player C putts his ball to within 4 feet. Player B putts his ball to within 4 feet whilst Player A putts his to within a few inches. Players C&D call it good so A&B are down in par 4. Player C makes his putt from 4 feet to also make 4, nett 3. Thereby winning the hole and levelling the match.
Player C tees off on hole 10 as does player D. Player B places his ball down and realises that he has the wrong ball. It is in fact player Cs ball from the 9th. Player C has played players Bs ball and visa versa. So who now wins the 9th hole? Are player C & B both disqualified meaning player A wins the hole as the only player to finish the hole given that player D didn’t hole out. Is there a ruling given that the next hole has started.
Player B called the pro who said C&D had lost the hole, so one down.

 

[jim8flog]

In match play:
• If the player and opponent play each other’s ball during the play of a hole, the first to make a stroke at a wrong ball gets the general penalty (loss of hole).
• If it is not known which wrong ball was played first, there is no penalty and the hole must be played out with the balls exchanged.

 

[hairball_89]

I got a little lost, but my understanding would be whoever hit the incorrect ball first lost the hole. What happens after the hole is lost is irrelevant.

So on the 9th, C who played first lost the hole. Someone with a better knowledge of the rules than I would have to decided whether C then *again* played the wrong ball, losing the 10th, although as it was a tee shot, I'd assume not?

Edit: Jim beat me while I was posting. I'd go with him not me!

 

[YandaB]

I found this https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/interpretations/rule-23-interpretations#23-2a-1 which is quite similar to your situation and I would read that as being A wins the hole and so A&B are 2 up as D never holed out (but I think D would feel agrieved as he never had chance thinking it was thought to not be required). It indicates that the result of the previous hole can be changed even though the next has started. Like hairball, I'm not sure about the situation regarding C's status in the next hole, is he disqualified from that too or has he just used a different ball on the next hole?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In respect of the 10th, I'd say that the ball each player played from the tee is that players ball in play. That any ball put in play by a player might not actually be 'owned' by the player is neither here nor there.

 

[jim8flog]

queries I would add

You say player Bs next shot was conceded was it at that point he picked up players C ball and not his own. Did one of other side or his own partner knock it back to him or pick it up and give to him?

Or were the balls exchanged when the shots in to the green were hit?

 

[rulefan]

Hi, just after some guidance on this one if anyone can help out? Apologies for the long narrative

Players A and B are playing C and D. Players C&D are one down after 8.

Playing the 9th today all four players played their shots into the same blind portion of the fairway. Player A plays his ball onto the right side of the green. Player C (who has a shot on this hole) plays his ball to the back of the green. Player B plays his shot to the front of the green and Player D misses the green to lefthand side. Player D then chips to then hole finishing some three feet past. Player C putts his ball to within 4 feet. Player B putts his ball to within 4 feet whilst Player A putts his to within a few inches. Players C&D call it good so A&B are down in par 4. Player C makes his putt from 4 feet to also make 4, nett 3. Thereby winning the hole and levelling the match.
Player C tees off on hole 10 as does player D. Player B places his ball down and realises that he has the wrong ball. It is in fact player Cs ball from the 9th. Player C has played players Bs ball and visa versa. So who now wins the 9th hole? Are player C & B both disqualified meaning player A wins the hole as the only player to finish the hole given that player D didn’t hole out. Is there a ruling given that the next hole has started.
Player B called the pro who said C&D had lost the hole, so one down.

When B & C played the wrong balls they were both DQd from the hole. The match continues with A & D. A's putt is conceded. D did not hole out. So A (& B ) win the hole.

 

[Jorton]

I found this https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/interpretations/rule-23-interpretations#23-2a-1 which is quite similar to your situation and I would read that as being A wins the hole and so A&B are 2 up as D never holed out (but I think D would feel agrieved as he never had chance thinking it was thought to not be required). It indicates that the result of the previous hole can be changed even though the next has started. Like hairball, I'm not sure about the situation regarding C's status in the next hole, is he disqualified from that too or has he just used a different ball on the next hole?

Thanks everyone for the responses. I think this situation is as close to an example as possible, but doesn’t mention balls being in play but I don’t think this would matter.
Yes it was annoying that I never had chance to hole out and thus half the hole. We went on to lose the match 1down

 

[rulefan]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I think this situation is as close to an example as possible, but doesn’t mention balls being in play but I don’t think this would matter.
Yes it was annoying that I never had chance to hole out and thus half the hole. We went on to lose the match 1down

Do you agree with post #7

 

[Jorton]

When B & C played the wrong balls they were both DQd from the hole. The match continues with A & D. A's putt is conceded. D did not hole out. So A (& B ) win the hole.

Thanks, I agree with that summary. Player D is thus penalised for As error

 

[williamalex1]

If their balls got accidental exchanged/mixed up between holes, would that still be a penalty ?

 

[rulefan]

Thanks, I agree with that summary. Player D is thus penalised for As error

What error did A make?
D wasn't penalised - he just didn't putt out.

 

[rulefan]

If their balls got accidental exchanged/mixed up between holes, would that still be a penalty ?

No.
Once a hole is over, the balls used on the next hole are nothing to do with the balls used on the previous hole

 

[Jorton]

Thanks

What error did A make?
D wasn't penalised - he just didn't putt out.

my mistake I meant to say C. It was C’s error in playing the wrong ball in the first place.

 

[rulefan]

You had me confused even more

 

[backwoodsman]

You had me confused even more

I think he was surmising that D was "penalised" as a result of C playing the wrong ball - meaning that D lost out, or suffered an unfortunate result, as a consequence of not realising his partner C had made the error.

 

[rulefan]

I think he was surmising that D was "penalised" as a result of C playing the wrong ball - meaning that D lost out, or suffered an unfortunate result, as a consequence of not realising his partner C had made the error.

No. It was the mention of A's error.

 

[backwoodsman]

No. It was the mention of A's error.

But then corrected himself to say C's error

 

[rulefan]

But then corrected himself to say C's error

But after my further confusion (in addition to the OP) which I alluded to in #13

Forget it.