3 minutes to find ball

[chrisd]

But aren't the rules there to help prevent assumptions being made.

Yet whether you agree with Orikoru or not, what he states as standard practice, is most likely the norm at the majority of golf clubs.

I believe the rules are there to govern how the game is played and it's up to the players to abide by them . You seem to miss my main point Wolf - yes I know that's how a lot do it, but this particular part of the site is a rules section and I dont believe posts on it should suggest it's ok to ignore this or any other rule

 

[Wolf]

I believe the rules are there to govern how the game is played and it's up to the players to abide by them . You seem to miss my main point Wolf - yes I know that's how a lot do it, but this particular part of the site is a rules section and I dont believe posts on it should suggest it's ok to ignore this or any other rule

Then you miss the main point of debate. Yes this is a a rules sections, but that doesn't mean people should not be allowed to discuss the merits, application of perhaps in some cases even the relevance of that rule.
It's an open forum, we should not have to just debate things in the Lounge section, because people cant accept that someone may question a ruling or its relevance. Because then we end up having the same post in 2 places absolutely pointless, a rule question was raised and its being debated.

 

[Orikoru]

I find it hard to believe that in the 21st century most golfers don't have access to timer of some sort out on the course. A phone, GPS watch, a normal watch.....
No one's expecting you to do a grand prix style lights out start for a ball search but it really isn't a lot to expect people to make an effort to get this rule right.

Of course I have I'm just not going to stand there faffing about with a stopwatch, that's not what golf is about for me. Golf is about enjoying the round not rigidly making absolutely sure that nobody steps out of line 100% of the time. I've said it before but life is too short. Approximating the time is satisfactory for me and everyone I've ever played with, and by not dicking about with my phone timer I can ensure I am giving my full attention to searching for the feller's ball - because again, that is the priority - not timing him to make sure he isn't a cheating bastard.

 

[chrisd]

Then you miss the main point of debate. Yes this is a a rules sections, but that doesn't mean people should not be allowed to discuss the merits, application of perhaps in some cases even the relevance of that rule.
It's an open forum, we should not have to just debate things in the Lounge section, because people cant accept that someone may question a ruling or its relevance. Because then we end up having the same post in 2 places absolutely pointless, a rule question was raised and its being debated.

Great, just carry on cheating if you want then 👍

 

[Orikoru]

I believe the rules are there to govern how the game is played and it's up to the players to abide by them . You seem to miss my main point Wolf - yes I know that's how a lot do it, but this particular part of the site is a rules section and I dont believe posts on it should suggest it's ok to ignore this or any other rule

It is the rules forum yes and we're discussing a rule and how it's applied in every day golf. Seems perfectly normal and above board to me.

 

[Wolf]

Great, just carry on cheating if you want then 👍

Ah so I'm a cheat now..

Great come back to a valid response about how I believe there's nothing wrong discussing a rule in the rules forum.

I'm sorry but we were having a perfectly healthy adult discussion and you take it to childish levels and tell me to carry on cheating even though I've never said I've flouted the rule nor would I cheat.

I'm sorry Chris but that's a pathetic response and I thought better of you having seen and read many previous posts you've made.

 

[YandaB]

So does this mean that in the equipment section of the rules there should be one that specifically states every player should must have a device capable of timing 3 minutes?

 

[backwoodsman]

Of course I have I'm just not going to stand there faffing about with a stopwatch, that's not what golf is about for me. Golf is about enjoying the round not rigidly making absolutely sure that nobody steps out of line 100% of the time. I've said it before but life is too short. Approximating the time is satisfactory for me and everyone I've ever played with, and by not dicking about with my phone timer I can ensure I am giving my full attention to searching for the feller's ball - because again, that is the priority - not timing him to make sure he isn't a cheating bastard.

Herein lies the nub of the debate. Yes we play golf for fun & enjoyment, but , it's a game played according to rules, and here is a clear indication of the lack any reasonable effort to make sure one stays within the limits of those rules. (And I accept the assertion that "this is what happens at most clubs/courses" ). But, if one does not make any reasonable effort to time a search - then one is just guessing which in my mind is not adequate - one can't have any real idea of whether one is keeping within the rule. Golf is a self policing game where adherence to rules is pretty much govern by the individual. So the individual needs to make reasonable effort.

And no, this is not accusing anyone of cheating

 

[chrisd]

Ah so I'm a cheat now..

Great come back to a valid response about how I believe there's nothing wrong discussing a rule in the rules forum.

I'm sorry but we were having a perfectly healthy adult discussion and you take it to childish levels and tell me to carry on cheating even though I've never said I've flouted the rule nor would I cheat.

I'm sorry Chris but that's a pathetic response and I thought better of you having seen and read many previous posts you've made.

As soon as you start making a case for not being able to play to the rules then I'd be staggered if you, and others on here who play fast and loose with the rule have never gone over the 3 minutes and you cant categorically state/know that you havent. You have the means to stick by the rules available to you but prefer to not to do so and when it's your ball and you play it at anytime after 3 minutes have elapsed then you have broken the rules. I would take the view that is unfair to the rest of the field in a competition if it happens, and given how simple it is to keep within the rule, I'd say it has to eventually become cheating. Pathetic, or not, you will play with people who, whether you know they've timed a search of yours, or not, will doubt your integrity if they see you going over the time, especially if it's a regular occurrence.

I posted earlier of a guy in my match who went way way over the 3 minutes, found his ball and played it, I will never play with him again without keeping an eye on his adherence to rules and especially this rule as my trust in him has now diminished.

 

[Imurg]

Ohhhhhhhh....what a mess.
In some ways the rules can be awkward, maybe a little vague and, sometimes downright confusing.
You have 3 minutes to look for your ball but there is no requirement to have a means of measuring that time. Many golfers don't wear a watch and a glance at your GPS or phone, normally just shows hours and minutes - not seconds. So a glance at 10.17 could be 10.17.01 or 10.17.59. Another glance, approximately 3 minutes later could show 10.20 but it could be 10.20.01 or 10.20.59.
As has been said you could have looked for nearer 2 to nearer 4 minutes........unless you have a stopwatch or check the seconds you're "guessing" the time as much as so done who has no device available.
I doubt the R&A will ever demand that we carry stopwatches so what's the answer..?
To me, then answer is that, by and large, most people don't look for a ball for 3 minutes. They get bored after about 2. There will be exceptions and that's when someone so ply says " well, I think that's probably 3 minutes" and the game moves on. If someone has an ACCURATE timing device than all well and good but if the rules stipulate an exact time then why don't they also stipulate a means of measuring it?
A similar principle is in the requirement to put an identification mark on your ball. The rules say you SHOULD put a mark on your ball. You are not required to. Yet, if you lose sight of your ball, how do you identify your ball if there is no mark on it..?

 

[robinthehood]

It's not that hard at all to believe really. I don't own a watch normal or GPS. I turn my phone off when playing golf to prevent unwanted distractions of calls or texts. My GPS I do have doesn't have time on it when in map mode. Thats just me as an example.

Use my dad as another doesn't wear a watch, doesn't use a mobile phone and uses a lazer for distances.

I get your point as general rule of thumb but it is perfectly possible and feasible to be on a golf course without a timer

That's just a cop out , put your phone in flight mode.

 

[Slab]

Since we’re not disputing a rule of golf or decision, if the Mods think it appropriate they might move this to the Lounge

Like others I have not seen anyone start a timer when they begin their search & I got to wondering how have we arrived at a point (& a pretty much undisputed point) where in the experience of several of us it suggests the majority of amateur golfers don’t use an artificial timer to measure the search time for a ball at club level? How has what is being proclaimed as such a fundamental step got to the situation where most do not do this?

Is it really that we’re not using one with the intention of seeking an unfair advantage! Or maybe the majority have never actually used one and widespread timer use at club level, while still in its infancy, is now on the increase

It seemed pretty clear that when we had 5 minutes to search most of us stopped well under that time even without use of a timer and there was little or no calls about cheating then. Why were we apparently more trusted by others to gauge 5 minutes of time passage than we are now trusted to gauge 3 minutes?


Time perception & the objective/subjective passage of time is an area most of us probably don’t really have the willpower to go through just for a forum discussion but from my experience I know that in many situations most of us actually overestimate elapsed time compared to actual time. In everyday life we see this in activities like being put on hold, you think it’s been 5 minutes when it’s actually nearer 3

If that is also true when searching for a golf ball then for the most part we’re probably still stopping the search too soon, but that does leave the possibility that some could go over the permitted time

However since not many balls are actually found after 3 minutes has elapsed (that was one of the fundamental researched reasons behind the change) it follows that if I've found my ball then the significant odds are its been less than 3 minutes




(yes of course that last bits a joke )

 

[robinthehood]

Of course I have I'm just not going to stand there faffing about with a stopwatch, that's not what golf is about for me. Golf is about enjoying the round not rigidly making absolutely sure that nobody steps out of line 100% of the time. I've said it before but life is too short. Approximating the time is satisfactory for me and everyone I've ever played with, and by not dicking about with my phone timer I can ensure I am giving my full attention to searching for the feller's ball - because again, that is the priority - not timing him to make sure he isn't a cheating bastard.

Of course I have I'm just not going to stand there faffing about with a stopwatch, that's not what golf is about for me. Golf is about enjoying the round not rigidly making absolutely sure that nobody steps out of line 100% of the time. I've said it before but life is too short. Approximating the time is satisfactory for me and everyone I've ever played with, and by not dicking about with my phone timer I can ensure I am giving my full attention to searching for the feller's ball - because again, that is the priority - not timing him to make sure he isn't a cheating bastard.

I don't use a stopwatch, the phones i have owned have a clock on the lock screen . It takes may be 2 or 3 seconds to check the time, your faffing excuse doesn't really wash

 

[Imurg]

I don't use a stopwatch, the phones i have owned have a clock on the lock screen . It takes may be 2 or 3 seconds to check the time, your faffing excuse doesn't really wash

Just glanced at mine...
Shows 7.34.
Is that 7.34 and 1 second or 59..?

 

[robinthehood]

Just glanced at mine...
Shows 7.34.
Is that 7.34 and 1 second or 59..?

Mine said 739.23
Although I'm happy using whole minutes. It better than nothing.

 

[Imurg]

Whilst I'm in absolute favour of this rule and the timing of it, here's a scenario that will happen every single day.
Search started at 7.40.43.....timed by one person
The timing device is a GPS attached to a trolley or bag.
Search continues and the ball is found.
The timing person walks back to said trolley and the timer says 7.43.47
Ball lost or not..?
Can you, accurately, determine how long it took to return to the trolley?
Don't forget, there is no requirement to have a timing device and , if you have one, no requirement to take it with you to the search area.
This increases the grey area, a few seconds either side of the time limit.
In the professional game there will be someone timing the search.
In real life there won't.
What's the answer?

 

[robinthehood]

Whilst I'm in absolute favour of this rule and the timing of it, here's a scenario that will happen every single day.
Search started at 7.40.43.....timed by one person
The timing device is a GPS attached to a trolley or bag.
Search continues and the ball is found.
The timing person walks back to said trolley and the timer says 7.43.47
Ball lost or not..?
Can you, accurately, determine how long it took to return to the trolley?
Don't forget, there is no requirement to have a timing device and , if you have one, no requirement to take it with you to the search area.
This increases the grey area, a few seconds either side of the time limit.
In the professional game there will be someone timing the search.
In real life there won't.
What's the answer?

All good as long as it was within 3 mins 😉

 

[Slab]

Can’t find a golf specific one so does anyone know a local pro who’ll calibrate & adjust my egg timer so that its suitable for use when looking for a golf ball? I’ve heard that some of the cheap knock-offs can be out by as much as 8%

While I believe mine to be genuine my reason for the calibration is that the one I have is filled with coral sand, not rock sand and being more porous it leaves some questions unanswered regards ‘flow rate’ and no info listed on the packaging (in fact there’s not even any packing!)




I fully accept this comment does not befit the Rules section of the forum and the genuine assistance the guys here regularly provide, honestly I'm sorry for posting it, my only excuse is that I did find a tad amusing, if somewhat immature

 

[chrisd]

Whilst I'm in absolute favour of this rule and the timing of it, here's a scenario that will happen every single day.
Search started at 7.40.43.....timed by one person
The timing device is a GPS attached to a trolley or bag.
Search continues and the ball is found.
The timing person walks back to said trolley and the timer says 7.43.47
Ball lost or not..?
Can you, accurately, determine how long it took to return to the trolley?
Don't forget, there is no requirement to have a timing device and , if you have one, no requirement to take it with you to the search area.
This increases the grey area, a few seconds either side of the time limit.
In the professional game there will be someone timing the search.
In real life there won't.
What's the answer?

Just guess and get on with it, and then go on a rules forum a claim that it's too much to expect anyone to bother whether adherence to the rule really matters?

 

[Imurg]

All good as long as it was within 3 mins 😉

And how do you know this, in the scenario above...?