12 degree Drivers

pokerjoke said:
To be fair to Foxholer you only mentioned you were up the range.
You never mentioned what balls you were using,you could easily have been using your own balls.
You also never mentioned temperature or a breeze.

So on reading your op I also presumed you were hitting it 220
and I too didn't think it was far for a high swing speed.
Maybe in future try not to leave out some important information.:)
Click to expand...


Sorry fellas..
My bad... I thought I had mentioned the outside factors in my OP.....

No harm done I hope..:o
 
the_coach said:
Only one real way to find out, get the versions your split between and spend some time on a launch monitor and look at the 'numbers'. Particularly Launch angle, Spin rate, Peak height and Dispersion and your swings AoA, last of all carry.
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Interesting that you use Peak Height rather than Ball Speed. Any particular reason? Does it give a simply guide to Carry?

To me, Peak Height can be a calculated value - derivable from Ball Speed, Spin and Launch Angle - as can Carry. Which is why LMs can be used inside. Just my IT training (Data Based Programming since 1975, DBA in 79) I guess.
 
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Foxholer said:
Interesting that you use Peak Height rather than Ball Speed. Any particular reason? Does it give a simply guide to Carry?

To me, Peak Height can be a calculated value - derivable from Ball Speed, Spin and Launch Angle - as can Carry. Which is why LMs can be used inside. Just my IT training (DBA in 1978) I guess.
Click to expand...

Anyone's normal average club head speed and the ball speed off the face won't be changing that much, swing to swing, different driver to driver, what ever loft on the face, so the ball speed won't be changing significantly either.

One of the questions was would a change to a higher lofted driver be a good move. (So besides my main point of, you really have got to try them out on a launch monitor to see the 'numbers' rather than an 'impression' by eye on a range.)

If your thinking of changing to a driver that the loft is a few degrees higher, the main things that will/are likely to change, will be your launch angle and also more loft on the face will increase your spin rate, whatever the ball speed is. This (LA, SR) will also be governed by your AoA, which is another numerical I advised the OP to look at, as the dynamic loft will be different to the static loft.

These are things that will change the trajectory and peak height, so be directly responsible for carry and distance. (And also as an extra, it would give you more of an indication if it would be likely to still be in an acceptable range that you could still use when the wind blows.)

If the extra loft on the face significantly bumps up your spin rate you're going to be losing distance and carry. (also the harder you hit, faster the spin rate and the more it will spin)

By looking at the peak height it will give you confirmation that the extra loft, SR, and your effort into the shot may well be being invested in just going upwards rather than forwards. As these numbers are readily there it gives you more immediate feed back into what your actually looking at than the SS, BS numbers would.

A reasonable driver peak height for good trajectory and carry would be as a guide, around 36 yards. {From a 105/106mph SS circa the area OP was estimating his at. Depending on type of ball, where it was struck on the face would give a guide BS around 155-159mph}
 
I know MikeH Lofted up with the TM fit and got a big increase in distance so maybe they aren't as daft as they look. Granted the next loft up model will be out before Easter but if better launch equals better distance then why not. Mark Crossfield visited the Ping tour van http://bit.ly/1dytZ6r and the last bit is quite interesting about what their pros are using, especially as it was at last years Scottish Open and so well before TM's loft up
 
Kid given that you're a young, improving low handicap golfer I'd work on my swing with a decent pro and forget changing drivers.

I have three things that lead to a slice

1. Trying to hit the ball too hard

2. Not keeping my back leg planted and on plane during the back swing, (i.e. if I rotate my body to get a full shoulder turn instead of keeping my right leg planted and coiling through my hips and upper torso it sends the ball right).

3. Basic set up error

The infuriating thing is I know exactly what I have done as soon as I hit the ball. A good pro should work with you to help you understand your swing so that you know what you have done and why you did it. This will help you in the long run however buying an offset driver won't cure the problem.

If you do go down the offset/closed driver route you can pick up a Callaway FTiZ for very little money. I have one and they do work but mine has been in the cupboard for a while and only comes out when I'm suffering back problems and have limited rotation. Although the 10 degree is supposed to be neutral it looks very closed but it does work but if you're swinging well you do have to be careful of hooks :mad:

Going up in loft will help however you may find that even a low launching shaft will struggle to bring the height down if you have a 90+ swing speed and 12 degrees of loft especially if your attack angle adds to the spin and launch angle
 
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This thread is a good read. So im gonna hijack it !! (Sorry).

I have always driven with a 3 wood, just picked it up and never put it back down again. I can usually hit between 200 and 220 with it but of late, since ive been playing more, I ve been hankering for more yardage. I was thinking that because of my consistency with my three wood, a move to a 12 degree driver would not upset things much and give me that wee bit extra.

Is this well formulated plan ?

Thanks for reading.
 
For what it is worth I changed to a 12 degree driver and have never looked back. I played a Ping K15 for a long while and have stuck with 12 degrees on my new Covert.

To be honest I am sure that a lot of people will find that a lower lofted driver works just fine for them. For me the answer is simply that I look at the extra loft on offer and feel confident. Even if you could get it 20 yards further with a lower loft is it worth it if your in the long crap with no shot, meaning your not going to score. Getting more backspin means more height but should also lessen side spin minimising the effect of slice.

The OP is a good player so obviously has the ability to play pretty good golf, surely its just about feeling comfortable and confident. Playing from the fairway is much more fun too! I am pretty sure that like myself sooner or later you will find that you are more able to manipulate the flight with a 12 degree driver.

Assuming its a demo or used ping K15 you pro had why not see if you can play it on the course, nothing beats confidence that comes from it working where it matters!

Just my thoughts as someone that has already made the change.
 
Well Fella's...
Just back from the range again... Iv been working the last few weeks on trusting my swing and playing my fade and have thrown the concept of trying to draw the ball aside..... Iv improved to the point that i think i can get away with the swing i have and play to a good level....
As well as working on my fade flight with everything in the bag i got hold of that Ping K15 again tonight but this time my Pal put a Project X 5.5 shaft in it for me and this was even better than the stock Ping shaft.... The flight was the similar nut more forward than the Ping if that makes any sense....
I was aiming between two 200 yard markers that was my Fairway.... Distance between them was roughly 20 yards wide and i only put 3 balls outside the left marker out of 24....
If i wasnt hitting it straight i was drawing it....
To get it to cut i had to open my stance way up and keep the shoulders a little more closed otherwise i was just hooking it.....

It may not be nice looking and its probably the last driver you'd see in a single figure golfers bag but this chap right here isnt afraid to break the mould and use it...

I cant begin to tell anyone how much confidence i would get from hitting a driver within a 30 yard area every time i stand on a tee....
And ill be the first to hold my hand up and say that i thought these drivers were only for cronic slicers or people that only play now and again...
If i could get a driver that i was able to fade over and over again without it turning into a push slice or a hook then id jump at it but i think for the foreseeable future i will be playing a Ping K15 3 wood and Driver and im not afraid to say it....

Its about enjoying my game while im getting better and this is something that i lost a little towards the end of last season as even though i was getting better i still thought that i should have been improving better than i was.....
Reality needs to kick us in the ass at times and i woke up to this a few weeks ago...

My swing aint perfect but im now in a much better place in my head that im confident that i can aim left swing with no thoughts and put the ball where i want with my little fade....

Happy Days..:whoo:
 
Dave B said:
Kid given that you're a young, improving low handicap golfer I'd work on my swing with a decent pro and forget changing drivers.
Click to expand...

Been there done that Dave....
What my Pro was trying to get me to do i physically cant... It just felt way too unnatural to me.... I was being thought to swing down the line further through impact which i just couldnt do.... The way i swing i go left straight after impact... Its just natural to me....
I hit the ball from the inside too so i dont loose power....
I set up with my feet left of my target and my shoulders square to my target and ill hit fades all day long for you like this.... Its just the way i feel most comfortable....

Iv been for a driver lesson and the Pro was trying to get me to do the same things as with my irons when i first had a lesson with him....
It wasnt all bad though....Lessons have their benefits....
He got my swing more neutral and also he got it way shallower which was nice... These things i have kept... I understand my swing a lot more than i did 16 months ago and i also understand why i miss in certain directions....

And i now have a predictable fade ball flight.... My mate who goes to the range with me plays off 2... He plays a natural draw.... When we both strike the ball impact sounds the same.... Nice and crisp..... Only difference being is that where he hits an 8 i need to hit 7 but who cares.... Our ball flights are pretty similar in movement also .... mine obviously being higher from the fade and a bit more spin but the left to right movement on good hits is only a couple of yards.
 
jaften said:
This thread is a good read. So im gonna hijack it !! (Sorry).

I have always driven with a 3 wood, just picked it up and never put it back down again. I can usually hit between 200 and 220 with it but of late, since ive been playing more, I ve been hankering for more yardage. I was thinking that because of my consistency with my three wood, a move to a 12 degree driver would not upset things much and give me that wee bit extra.

Is this well formulated plan ?

Thanks for reading.
Click to expand...

Seems pretty reasonable to me!

K or G series Pings are plenty forgiving.

Nike do some too, but the sound puts me off! And that coming from a user of a Donk-ey FT3 (how apt!)!
 
My Pro told me at the time that the K15 was more draw biased, which may help explain the slight draw and straight shots you say you were getting. And that less loft creates less side spin also, which would help straighten out shots i guess.

I have the 12 degree 910D2 set to 11.25 degrees and carry it 20 yards further than my previous Nike Draw biased driver.
 
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