10 Golf Myths

[Lucifer MorningStar]

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Taking 1 single putt in isolation I would agree with you....so if you need to 2 putt from 10-15ft to win a tournament....yes absolutely you are going to play so that the three putt doesnt come in to the equation and the "lag" is the correct option.

But over a longer term, and many dozens of putts over the course of a season, the player who hits his putts so they go past the hole by 20 inches (I think Dave Pelz said 17" past the hole was optimal pace) will hole more "first putts" than he will have 3 putts.

So whilst you will be level par with all your misses short to 1ft, someone else who takes the risk of hitting it long (within sensible reason of course) is likely to be under par over the course of many holes in this putting scenario.

From 20-30ft....yeah...us amateurs just need to get in inside the proverbial dustbin lid.

I think a lot of people are taking @Orikoru comments out of context. Nowhere has he said he is lag putting or purposely leaving putts short from distances up to 10-15ft merely that he doesn’t play them with a pace to send it 3ft past. I take his meaning to be longer putts that the majority of club golfers putts will be left with.

I’d also argue that Pelz ideal for all its intentions is great for tour players. But most people struggle to understand what 6” is let alone honing a skill set to hit a putt with exactly 17-20” of extra pace. The current stats out there as per Lou Stagner provided using untold amounts of data from Tour players and Arcoss for Club players, that exact range is less than what current scratch players achieve on a regular basis so often being shorter leads to less 3putts. So it’s just not realistic and doesn’t support the never up never in argument no matter how much it’s thrown about.

Ultimately the aim is to not 3 putt and that old dustbin lid still is the most sensible option for the majority of players, if low players wanna carry on stating it has to go past to have a chance let them. But personally I’ll play the averages depending on exactly what’s in front of me as I stand over each putt rather than always making sure I have to get past the hole.

 

[Neilds]

Taking 1 single putt in isolation I would agree with you....so if you need to 2 putt from 10-15ft to win a tournament....yes absolutely you are going to play so that the three putt doesnt come in to the equation and the "lag" is the correct option.

But over a longer term, and many dozens of putts over the course of a season, the player who hits his putts so they go past the hole by 20 inches (I think Dave Pelz said 17" past the hole was optimal pace) will hole more "first putts" than he will have 3 putts.

So whilst you will be level par with all your misses short to 1ft, someone else who takes the risk of hitting it long (within sensible reason of course) is likely to be under par over the course of many holes in this putting scenario.

From 20-30ft....yeah...us amateurs just need to get in inside the proverbial dustbin lid.

Not wanting to be pedantic (well, not too much) but a ball that has gone 20” past the hole hasn’t gone in

 

[nickjdavis]

Not wanting to be pedantic (well, not too much) but a ball that has gone 20” past the hole hasn’t gone in

You know damned well that I meant that they hit the ball with a pace that would take it 20" past the hole if it doesnt drop.

 

[3 jabber]

Not posted on here for ages but read this thread and it made me laugh. What an absolute load of crap being spouted by most of you. There are two types of putt, long ones that you are trying to lag and shorter ones that you hope to hole.

Talking specifically about the second category......

1. Good players ALWAYS aim to get the ball past the hole.
2. If you are good enough to judge the pace to get the ball within a foot then you are also good enough to judge the pace to get the ball just past the hole.
3. There are 2 elements to a putt, length and line. If you leave the ball short then you have definitely got one of those elements wrong and possibly both so it will NEVER go in.
If you get the ball 2 feet past the hole then you have only got one of those elements wrong and the ball may possibly move towards the hole due to the imperfections in the green.
Experts agree that the optimum speed for a putt to go in the hole is with enough pace to go approx 18 inches past the hole as it will hold it's line better.

Maybe some of you should go for a putting lesson Adios, I'll leave you all to carry on discussing how to putt badly.......

 

[Mandofred]

As far as putting speed.....I do understand the "never up never in" thinking. I think this also can come back to the testing on whether you should leave the flag in or not. Bashing the putt aggressively at the hole might work for the professional....a 2-3 foot putt coming back doesn't mean much to them. A 3 footer with a little break will unfortunately make me butt-clench so hard I could crack walnuts. A lot of the flag testing was done rather aggressively.....99.9% of golfers do NOT want to hit it 2-3 feet past the hole. From 20ft or more, if I'm a foot short I can live with it. From 5 feet I definitely will have a little better attitude on hitting the ball fast enough so that it would go a "little" past the hole. An aggressive 30 footer could end up WAY beyond the hole and accompanied by a number of foul words about my stupidity.

 

[Golf is fun]

The never up, never in line of thinking comes from the same school of thought that if the last 10 flips of a coin has come up heads then tails is now overdue on the next flip.

For any given target distance, half your shots will be short and half will be long, the exact amount will depend on your skill level and starting distance of the putt. For the purposes of discussion say your dispersion is a 3 foot radius circle.

1. If you target exactly the distance to the centre of the hole half your misses will be short and half long. The longest putt you will have left will be 3 foot and assuming a somewhat normal distribution around your target something like 40% would be in the mythical 18" past zone.

2. If you target exactly 18" past the hole, then all your misses will be long, half within 3 feet, the furthest up to 6 feet away and half within the 18" zone.

3. If you target so the shortest putt you hit is 18" past, then about 20% of your putts will be within 3 feet, a tiny fraction will be in the 18" past zone, and your furthest return putt will 7 1/2 feet.

I think most would agree option 3 is the worst choice. Options 1 and 2 are much closer, but hitting it harder you're only getting 10% more putts in the 18" zone traded off for 50% of your putts left being up to 3 feet longer. At tour level the make rate from 3 foot is 99% dropping to 91% at 4', 81% at 5' and 70% at 6', for amateurs the rate is obviously lower. I wouldn't trade off the chance of 10% (in reality it's less because it's only the online misses) of my misses dropping for this reduced rate of making the follow up putt, but each to their own.

 

[The Squirrel]

Not posted on here for ages but read this thread and it made me laugh. What an absolute load of crap being spouted by most of you. There are two types of putt, long ones that you are trying to lag and shorter ones that you hope to hole.

Talking specifically about the second category......

1. Good players ALWAYS aim to get the ball past the hole.
2. If you are good enough to judge the pace to get the ball within a foot then you are also good enough to judge the pace to get the ball just past the hole.
3. There are 2 elements to a putt, length and line. If you leave the ball short then you have definitely got one of those elements wrong and possibly both so it will NEVER go in.
If you get the ball 2 feet past the hole then you have only got one of those elements wrong and the ball may possibly move towards the hole due to the imperfections in the green.
Experts agree that the optimum speed for a putt to go in the hole is with enough pace to go approx 18 inches past the hole as it will hold it's line better.

Maybe some of you should go for a putting lesson Adios, I'll leave you all to carry on discussing how to putt badly.......

I know it was probably chosen in jest, but still ... you're handing out putting advice with THAT username???

 

[Orikoru]

Taking 1 single putt in isolation I would agree with you....so if you need to 2 putt from 10-15ft to win a tournament....yes absolutely you are going to play so that the three putt doesnt come in to the equation and the "lag" is the correct option.

But over a longer term, and many dozens of putts over the course of a season, the player who hits his putts so they go past the hole by 20 inches (I think Dave Pelz said 17" past the hole was optimal pace) will hole more "first putts" than he will have 3 putts.

So whilst you will be level par with all your misses short to 1ft, someone else who takes the risk of hitting it long (within sensible reason of course) is likely to be under par over the course of many holes in this putting scenario.

From 20-30ft....yeah...us amateurs just need to get in inside the proverbial dustbin lid.

Not only do I not believe that to be true, I'm also sure it's been proven to be untrue. Otherwise the modern thinkers like Decade etc wouldn't be saying to focus your dispersion at the hole would they? Do you think they've made that up? No, it's based on data and statistics.

 

[Orikoru]

Not posted on here for ages but read this thread and it made me laugh. What an absolute load of crap being spouted by most of you. There are two types of putt, long ones that you are trying to lag and shorter ones that you hope to hole.

Talking specifically about the second category......

1. Good players ALWAYS aim to get the ball past the hole.
2. If you are good enough to judge the pace to get the ball within a foot then you are also good enough to judge the pace to get the ball just past the hole.
3. There are 2 elements to a putt, length and line. If you leave the ball short then you have definitely got one of those elements wrong and possibly both so it will NEVER go in.
If you get the ball 2 feet past the hole then you have only got one of those elements wrong and the ball may possibly move towards the hole due to the imperfections in the green.
Experts agree that the optimum speed for a putt to go in the hole is with enough pace to go approx 18 inches past the hole as it will hold it's line better.

Maybe some of you should go for a putting lesson Adios, I'll leave you all to carry on discussing how to putt badly.......

You're getting confused. None us are wanting to leave it short or actively trying to leave it short. I've just said that a foot short is a better outcome than three feet past, because over time you'll miss more three-footers than you miss one-footers. Leaving it short is still a mistake, but one that you accept in order to have a better dispersion, and ultimately three-putt less.

It's really telling how many people have been brainwashed by some of these idioms and just refuse to understand a different way of thinking. "Golfers set in their ways", you heard it here first.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Not only do I not believe that to be true, I'm also sure it's been proven to be untrue. Otherwise the modern thinkers like Decade etc wouldn't be saying to focus your dispersion at the hole would they? Do you think they've made that up? No, it's based on data and statistics.

Ok so I have a different question. What or who the hell is DECADE is he some sort Ancient Greek golfing philosopher with a name like that

I know I was away from the game for a few years but that’s definitely a new one to me.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

You're getting confused. None us are wanting to leave it short or actively trying to leave it short. I've just said that a foot short is a better outcome than three feet past, because over time you'll miss more three-footers than you miss one-footers. Leaving it short is still a mistake, but one that you accept in order to have a better dispersion, and ultimately three-putt less.

It's really telling how many people have been brainwashed by some of these idioms and just refuse to understand a different way of thinking. "Golfers set in their ways", you heard it here first.

Everyone seems to under the assumption you purposely leave every putt short

I also love the stubborn pettiness of golfers who believe the way they were told back when dinosaurs roamed the land and played golf with bits of wood, is still the only way to do things. God forbid free will and independence of thought processes.

 

[Orikoru]

Ok so I have a different question. What or who the hell is DECADE is he some sort Ancient Greek golfing philosopher with a name like that

I know I was away from the game for a few years but that’s definitely a new one to me.

The guy's name who made it is Scott Fawcett. DECADE is an acronym for something or other, it's just a course management tool or something like that. Calculates what club to use when (spoiler though, it's usually driver). There'll be some stuff on YouTube you can watch.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

The guy's name who made it is Scott Fawcett. DECADE is an acronym for something or other, it's just a course management tool or something like that. Calculates what club to use when (spoiler though, it's usually driver). There'll be some stuff on YouTube you can watch.

Well I’m still isolating so that’ll give me something to do tomorrow

 

[anotherdouble]

Well I’m still isolating so that’ll give me something to do tomorrow

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[Lucifer MorningStar]

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I’ll give that watch cheers mate saves me searching

 

[anotherdouble]

I’ll give that watch cheers mate saves me searching

Don’t know anything about it. I expect it’s nothing u haven’t seen before in a different guise. I doubt it’s the only one but at least it will give u an idea.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

The guy's name who made it is Scott Fawcett. DECADE is an acronym for something or other, it's just a course management tool or something like that. Calculates what club to use when (spoiler though, it's usually driver). There'll be some stuff on YouTube you can watch.

I see your point basically hit your longest club that doesn’t get you in trouble proper
Rocket surgery

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Just watched that during the footy half time. Think I may need to do a bit more digging, because so far all I took from it was look at the hole work out the longest club you can hit safely off the tee and that’s it! Doesn’t feel ground breaking or anything different to how I was taught to play the game by my dad in the 90s and how I’ve always played it as a result

I’m bored so off down the rabbit hole I go!

 

[anotherdouble]

I see your point basically hit your longest club that doesn’t get you in trouble proper
Rocket surgery

Just watched that during the footy half time. Think I may need to do a bit more digging, because so far all I took from it was look at the hole work out the longest club you can hit safely off the tee and that’s it! Doesn’t feel ground breaking or anything different to how I was taught to play the game by my dad in the 90s and how I’ve always played it as a result

I’m bored so off down the rabbit hole I go!

As I said, nothing you haven’t seen before albeit a different guise

 

[Yorkhacker]

Some good ones in there and many I agree with.

3. Thank god someone finally said it, @Orikoru states it perfectly about people launching it past the hole and missing the one back all because they’re scared of leaving it a foot short of the hole because “never up , never in”. I’d have gone further with the addition “missing on the high side is the pro side “ that one winds me up as well guess what you still missed it regardless of the side which means you still misread it!!

FYI, a putt missed on the high side of a sloping putt, will always finish closer to the hole than one missed on the low side provided they're hit at the same pace.

 

[3 jabber]

You're getting confused. None us are wanting to leave it short or actively trying to leave it short. I've just said that a foot short is a better outcome than three feet past, because over time you'll miss more three-footers than you miss one-footers. Leaving it short is still a mistake, but one that you accept in order to have a better dispersion, and ultimately three-putt less.

It's really telling how many people have been brainwashed by some of these idioms and just refuse to understand a different way of thinking. "Golfers set in their ways", you heard it here first.

I'm not getting confused at all, you are. You've picked random distances, why do you assume every putt left short is 1ft from the hole but every putt long is 3ft away? Statistically speaking, an underhit putt goes in 0% of the time but an overhit putt will go in some % of the time.

No golfer has left a putt short by being tentative/defensive then whacked the next one past the hole thinking 'Don't leave this short again'........ever