Your thoughts please.....

[Scotty_Tom]

Yesterday we had a team game against another club, in the singles in the afternoon I was drawn against a 3 handicapper, we were having a really good game, level through 14 holes and then this happened (didn't ruin the game mind!)

Our 15th is a short par 4, trees down the left, OB down the right, you have to walk back to the 15th tee from the 14th green, so our caddies walked up the hole a little, my caddy to the left, his caddy went right. There was a strong swirling wind, he hit the fairway, I hit a poor 2 iron that drifted on the wind and was heading OB, no hope for a straight bounce, it was going to one hop and then OB. It hit my opposition's trolley and kicked straight out of bounds.

We were game 3, game 2 was already finished, game 4 was 3 holes behind, we were out in the middle of nowhere. Both didn't really know what the situation was, we stood talking for a minute. I said that my ball was going OB, poor shot, it was gone. He said he thinks he could possibly be penalised as it hit his trolley, I thought he was right but thought it would be harsh as it was a poor shot and heading OB anyway. We decided that I would hit another from the tee as if it was my first.

With my 'second' I missed the green, didn't get up and down and lost the hole, he then won the next and won the game 2 up (halved the 17th). Im not questioning the result, we agreed on the tee and proceeded with that agreement and im happy with that. Just wondering what the actual rule is in that situation.

 

[chrisd]

If you hit an opponent's bag, trolley etc then there is no penalty as there would be if you hit your own gear. He would have no penalty against him if you hit his equipment either. However, and on reflection, as we had a post a while back that said, you cant have a penalty situation and agree to waive the rules of golf where, in matchplay, you can overlook a breach, so if you both agreed to carry on in a way that breached the Rules of Golf then I guess you would both be DQ'd?

 

[rickg]

If you hit an opponent's bag, trolley etc then there is no penalty as there would be if you hit your own gear. He would have no penalty against him if you hit his equipment either

In addition you get the OPTION to replay your shot again......clearly if it bounces out of bounds, you would exercise the option, but if it bounced into the hole, you wouldn't!!

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

If a player’s ball is accidentally deflected or stopped by an opponent, his caddie or his equipment, there is no penalty. The player may, before another stroke is made by either side, cancel the stroke and play a ball, without penalty, as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (Rule 20-5) or he may play the ball as it lies. However, if the player elects not to cancel the stroke and the ball has come to rest in or on the opponent’s or his caddie’s clothes or equipment, the ball must through the green or in a hazard be dropped, or on the putting green be placed, as near as possible to the spot directly under the place where the ball came to rest in or on the article, but not nearer the hole.
.

Looks to me like you took the right action! Fully accept this has come from a brief look at the rules, I may be corrected by the experts shortly

 

[la_lucha]

No penalty for you and play the ball as it lies, so you got it right. Surely though you should check with teammates/opposition before submitting a potentially incorrect result?

 

[Foxholer]

If you hit an opponent's bag, trolley etc then there is no penalty as there would be if you hit your own gear. He would have no penalty against him if you hit his equipment either

And! You get the choice of playing it as it lies or replaying your shot - with no Penalty.

Worth knowing the rules in that case!

 

[chrisd]

If you hit an opponent's bag, trolley etc then there is no penalty as there would be if you hit your own gear. He would have no penalty against him if you hit his equipment either. However, and on reflection, as we had a post a while back that said, you cant have a penalty situation and agree to waive the rules of golf where, in matchplay, you can overlook a breach, so if you both agreed to carry on in a way that breached the Rules of Golf then I guess you would both be DQ'd?

Sorry, ignore this nonsense - I forgot Rule 19-3 in Matchplay.

It seems like the OP stumbled upon the correct answer by accident

 

[Scotty_Tom]

thanks everyone.

No penalty for you and play the ball as it lies, so you got it right. Surely though you should check with teammates/opposition before submitting a potentially incorrect result?

as mentioned there wasn't anyone around at the time, we agreed it between ourselves and went forward from there. My team captain did catch up with us walking down the 17th, I explained what happened and he accepted what we had done. The guy I was playing was their team captain, and I am captain of another team within the club, both of us said we would be happy if any of our players were in a similar position and agreed on the same outcome.

 

[Foxholer]

thanks everyone.



as mentioned there wasn't anyone around at the time, we agreed it between ourselves and went forward from there. My team captain did catch up with us walking down the 17th, I explained what happened and he accepted what we had done. The guy I was playing was their team captain, and I am captain of another team within the club, both of us said we would be happy if any of our players were in a similar position and agreed on the same outcome.

So there were 3 Team Captains and not a Rule Book between you!

Is that going to change?

 

[Scotty_Tom]

Sorry, ignore this nonsense - I forgot Rule 19-3 in Matchplay.

It seems like the OP stumbled upon the correct answer by accident

accident is close enough! at the time I remember thinking about hitting someone's bag and a penalty etc but I couldn't remember the matchplay situation and didn't think a loss of hole for him was right (which is what he was thinking), especially as it was a poor shot, I didn't want to incorrectly rule, so we came to the agreement of playing another ball.

 

[duncan mackie]

No penalty for you and play the ball as it lies, so you got it right.

Surely though you should check with teammates/opposition before submitting a potentially incorrect result?

no penalty for anyone and you can either play it as it lies or replay the shot.

in the absence of a valid claim under rule 2-5 there is no such thing as a "potentially incorrect result"

 

[Scotty_Tom]

So there were 3 Team Captains and not a Rule Book between you!

Is that going to change?

Well mine was in the car as I had it in my pocket the week before when I was walking around with my team, no idea where his one was, and my captain had his in his pocket, but as we had settled the issue and played on we didn't check at the time.

I was going to check this morning, but with some rules being open to interpretation, I though I would explain the situation here and see what peoples views were!

 

[chrisd]

accident is close enough! at the time I remember thinking about hitting someone's bag and a penalty etc but I couldn't remember the matchplay situation and didn't think a loss of hole for him was right (which is what he was thinking), especially as it was a poor shot, I didn't want to incorrectly rule, so we came to the agreement of playing another ball.

I guess what I was also trying to say Tom, is that when you don't know the rule and decide to "make up" the Rules of Golf you put yourselves in a different place. Luckily you did absolutely the correct thing and all is well.

 

[super hans]

Ruling -Both lose the hole for having a caddy in an amateur game

 

[rulefan]

However, and on reflection, as we had a post a while back that said, you cant have a penalty situation and agree to waive the rules of golf where, in matchplay, you can overlook a breach, so if you both agreed to carry on in a way that breached the Rules of Golf then I guess you would both be DQ'd?

No. If the players did not know they were breaching a rule because they didn't know what the rule was, they cannot be making an agreement to waive a rule.

See Decs 2-5/8.5, 2-1/1 & 1-3/5

 

[chrisd]

No. If the players did not know they were breaching a rule because they didn't know what the rule was, they cannot be making an agreement to waive a rule.

See Decs 2-5/8.5, 2-1/1 & 1-3/5

That's why half of golfers don't bother to learn any rules, just make them up as you go along!

 

[atticusfinch]

Ignorance of the rules is only beneficial in a rule 1-3 situation. Otherwise you breach you pay, knowingly or not. (Some exceptions apply>)

 

[Old Skier]

What's the betting that the 3 handicapper would have known exactly what the rule was if the circumstances had been reversed.