Your thoughts on lessons from PGA pros

[inc0gnito]

Having been plagued with too many mechanical thoughts recently, it got me thinking about my hesitation with lessons.

I think the mantra “go see a pro” is probably tatooed onto the skins of many a forumer’s forehead. But I find the idea of seeing a pro very confusing. These days there is a lot of mixed messages that only serves to feel like you’re taking a risk with your money, and your swing.

To explain, if you do a quick search online you’ll find many posts about pros ruining people’s swings. These are largely anecdotal and who knows if these people followed the advice correctly. On the contrary, where’s there’s smoke there’s fire, right?

Secondly, if you watch a lot of YouTube or read magazines, you will inevitably hear vast differences in opinion about what a golf swing should look like. You will also hear a lot of people (pros) saying about how much misinformation there is out there, including from other well meaning pros.

In my one and only ‘proper’ lesson, the pro told me my hands were too high at the top of the backswing. Fine. Have heard that before from watching other player lessons. Then you have others saying it’s fine. Examples being Jack, a lot of George Gankas’ students inc Matt Wolff, and have heard Russell Heritage mention that high hands for some is fine because they lack external shoulder rotation. So who is right? Is anyone? In my two other ‘not really proper’ lessons, the bloke at affordable golf got me to cast the club and fire my hips. Even I knew enough then to not take that advice any further.

These three things create a lot of doubt about what’s right and what’s wrong, and where one should even get the correct information. It would be awesome to work with someone who knew you and knew what you needed, instead of feeling like your getting generic advice that may or may not be right for you.

What’s your thoughts on lessons from pro’s? Do you find it a mine field? Do you trust the pro, or take everything with a pinch of salt? How do you ‘swing your swing’ whilst still getting advice?

 

[fundy]

There's 2 approaches for me, the pros who will try and teach you the swing out of the manual and those who will work with that you have got. For me the latter is the only option (im never going to be textbook and ive been swinging this way too long for an overhaul) and need a pro who can work with what Ive got.

I know my swing pretty well and can often self diagnose if I have a camera and ideally trackman or similar but sometimes its far easier to get a fresh pair of eyes and fault fix from an expert (that you trust and can communicate well to you).

This is fine for smallish changes, I think where the problems often come is when people are looking to make much larger changes to something that feels totally unnatural to them and a lot of the time dont practise well enough what they have been taught, dont see results fast enough and then revert back to old bad habits.

First question I would always ask yourself is why are you having a lesson, what do you want to achieve from it and then communicate that to the pro

 

[Orikoru]

I'm in the same boat as you at the minute. I've never had lessons for a multitude of reasons, all are similar to what you've said:

• difficulty identifying the 'right' pro for me - with no reviews out there it could be a long trial and error process, while the cost adds up. Would hate to end up with a pro who just tries to blindly teach me the 'conventional' golf swing.
• I fear becoming one of those golfers who has a thousand swing thoughts in their head, stemming from wholesale swing changes instead of just relaxing and playing. I quite like the more organic approach of finding your own swing really.
• don't really have time to spend hours at the range trying to ingrain swing changes, I just play my weekend round(s) and that's it.

I had a shanking problem earlier in the year which pushed me to consider lessons, but I've managed to work through it for the time being, and recently got a nice two shot cut into the bargain, so lessons are back off the agenda - at least while we're still mid-season anyway.

 

[fundy]

I'm in the same boat as you at the minute. I've never had lessons for a multitude of reasons, all are similar to what you've said:

• difficulty identifying the 'right' pro for me - with no reviews out there it could be a long trial and error process, while the cost adds up. Would hate to end up with a pro who just tries to blindly teach me the 'conventional' golf swing.
• I fear becoming one of those golfers who has a thousand swing thoughts in their head, stemming from wholesale swing changes instead of just relaxing and playing. I quite like the more organic approach of finding your own swing really.
• don't really have time to spend hours at the range trying to ingrain swing changes, I just play my weekend round(s) and that's it.

I had a shanking problem earlier in the year which pushed me to consider lessons, but I've managed to work through it for the time being, and recently got a nice two shot cut into the bargain, so lessons are back off the agenda - at least while we're still mid-season anyway.

If number 3 remains then very little upside to lessons and probably quite a lot of downside!

 

[Garush34]

I like lessons from a pro, as long as they are in the work with what you have tye and not heres a model type. You mentioned Matt Wolff and Gankas and they seem to be the current poster boys for this type of teaching, if you listen to Gankas on various podcasts etc he mentions how he could change his swing to the more conventional look but it wouldnt work as well possibly, and then you may have lost that talent from the game.

I think the issue that a lot of weekend golfer get into is the looking online and in magazines and saying yeah that may fault and Ill use that as a fix. But in reality how do they know that is the fix that will sort them out. Take early extension as an example, I bet if you look on youtube there will be hundreds of videos but which one is for you. That is where going to a pro works best as they can see your swing and suggest the solution and the fix best for you. It is something that you need to continue to work on, going for one lesson isnt going to be answer for everyone.

If your concerned about lessons with pros ect, just ask around folk you play with who they get lessons off and go from there. Phone or email him and ask him questions before booking, if hes worth it he will respond with answers and be willing to give that bit of time before hand to get a new client. Also when in the lesson ask questions, yes do as he/she says but ask why they want you to do that, is it because of X or Y or Z. Ask if they have a plan for future lessons down the road, if this fix step one in the process, and how many steps. I've been for lessons where we work on just one thing, something very simple but it works and then next lesson we still work on that and then add in the next piece. Then it is a case of going away and working on them and just them, dont then add in this piece you found on youtube, that's when the doubt comes in.

Lessons don't work for everyone but you'll never know if you dont try.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Fundy sums it up perfectly in post #2. Find a pro who will make the most of what you already have. As handicap golfers we don't have the time to completely overhaul our swings by hitting thousands of balls on the range.
However I disagree with the comment by Garush, lessons do work for everyone IF you are prepared to put in the work that the pro advises.

 

[Dibby]

Obviously, a lot depends on the pro. Part of the equation is finding the right person to work with. For me, that is a pro who uses data, and works from that. Neither the pro I work with or myself care about positions, we look at impact data, assess what change will make the biggest impact, then work on what can provide that change. Most of the work we do is based on having a clear understanding and a task.

I see this as the way golf teaching will move to in the future, as the ability to get impact data becomes easier and easier with technology.

 

[Rlburnside]

If you explain what you are looking for in a lesson the pro should tailor that to your needs if he’s any use, that’s the rub though find one that will suit, have you any friends that could recommend one locally?

I have only had 3 lessons the first was totally a waste of money the pro tried to get me to do something I was physical incapable of, the second was a short game lesson and I didn’t learn anything that I didn’t already know, the third lesson was a 6 hole playing lesson but I parred the first 4 holes so what I thought would be a good experience ended up with a feeling that I wasted my money.

 

[Jensen]

I concur with what has been said. A good pro will work with what you've got and what you do naturally, and fine tune from there.
He/she will teach the golfer NOT a method.
It also doesn't mean that the pro where you play will be the right one for you. I fell into this trap at a previous club, and he was a complete waste of time and money

 

[jim8flog]

Without lessons it is very easy to hits loads of balls on a range and 'groove' a swing fault which then becomes very difficult to eradicate.

When I was younger I had regular lessons with a variety of assistant pros mainly because they did not stay at the club long enough. In the end I went with the head guy, whom I got on with very well, simply because I knew he would always be at the club. He got to know my swing so well we ended up only having 10 minutes lessons to iron out any swing fault which had developed.

There was only one assistant I would not go back to mainly because his ideas were a lot different to the others.

 

[Imurg]

Fundy sums it up perfectly in post #2. Find a pro who will make the most of what you already have. As handicap golfers we don't have the time to completely overhaul our swings by hitting thousands of balls on the range.
However I disagree with the comment by Garush, lessons do work for everyone IF you are prepared to put in the work that the pro advises.

I concur with my learned friend from the South Coast...
The main reason I haven't had lessons is the practice time that has to be put in to make changes stick.
I know people who have had a course of lessons and the only other time they touch their clubs is when they go out to play..waste of time getting those lessons I'm my view.

 

[IanM]

I concur with my learned friend(s) from the South Coast...

Me too. In addition, a key question at the start of the relationship with a coach is for them to understand what you are trying to achieve and what is the starting point. "What will success look like?"

The solution might be major change, a tweak, different thinking/approach/diet or even better equipment.

Lessons are not bad. But the wrong sort of lessons might be!

 

[Blue in Munich]

I concur with my learned friend from the South Coast...

And another.

I would say that you need to consider it a relationship; the more you put in, the more you will get out. Don’t just listen, ask questions and challenge the pro (respectfully) if you are not sure, and if you don’t understand ask them to explain differently. The one I used would always ask if I had any questions at the end of the lesson. Shame he's moved to Norway ( not to escape me before my “friends “ ask ).

 

[Backache]

Having been plagued with too many mechanical thoughts recently, it got me thinking about my hesitation with lessons.

I think the mantra “go see a pro” is probably tatooed onto the skins of many a forumer’s forehead. But I find the idea of seeing a pro very confusing. These days there is a lot of mixed messages that only serves to feel like you’re taking a risk with your money, and your swing.

To explain, if you do a quick search online you’ll find many posts about pros ruining people’s swings. These are largely anecdotal and who knows if these people followed the advice correctly. On the contrary, where’s there’s smoke there’s fire, right?

Secondly, if you watch a lot of YouTube or read magazines, you will inevitably hear vast differences in opinion about what a golf swing should look like. You will also hear a lot of people (pros) saying about how much misinformation there is out there, including from other well meaning pros.

In my one and only ‘proper’ lesson, the pro told me my hands were too high at the top of the backswing. Fine. Have heard that before from watching other player lessons. Then you have others saying it’s fine. Examples being Jack, a lot of George Gankas’ students inc Matt Wolff, and have heard Russell Heritage mention that high hands for some is fine because they lack external shoulder rotation. So who is right? Is anyone? In my two other ‘not really proper’ lessons, the bloke at affordable golf got me to cast the club and fire my hips. Even I knew enough then to not take that advice any further.

These three things create a lot of doubt about what’s right and what’s wrong, and where one should even get the correct information. It would be awesome to work with someone who knew you and knew what you needed, instead of feeling like your getting generic advice that may or may not be right for you.

What’s your thoughts on lessons from pro’s? Do you find it a mine field? Do you trust the pro, or take everything with a pinch of salt? How do you ‘swing your swing’ whilst still getting advice?

I don't mean to be rude and I apologise if this comes over as rude but with the greatest respect you started quite an interesting thread earlier talking about how you were thinking of giving up because you are failing to break 100 regularly.
To me this rather suggests that you have not go a swing that is likely to be damaged by the wrong lessons.
There may well be poor PGA pros just as there are in any walk of life you can get bad advice from doctors, lawyers , accountants etc, but generally speaking these people have been well trained and will give you good advice.
A PGA Pro has been taught how to analyse your golf and how to improve it , a few may not do it well but I suspect the vast majority will improve a golfer unable to break 100 regularly if they are prepared to put in the work and see them regularly ( though it may not need to be frequently) rather than the very occasional lessons with different pros you appear to have taken.
I am not a natural sportsman or a great golfer and took it up as an adult and had quite a few years where I lived abroad and could not play , I have a 17 handicap and shoot in the 80's on a regular basis but I'm absolutely certain I could not have got to the level I have without lessons though many can obviously get to a better level. My current problem is being able to find the time to get more lessons as I want to get my handicap down.

PS I would add that after lessons I inevitably play a little worse as it takes a while for new things to bed in but the long term trajectory has been improvement after lessons.

 

[inc0gnito]

I'm in the same boat as you at the minute. I've never had lessons for a multitude of reasons, all are similar to what you've said:

• difficulty identifying the 'right' pro for me - with no reviews out there it could be a long trial and error process, while the cost adds up. Would hate to end up with a pro who just tries to blindly teach me the 'conventional' golf swing.
• I fear becoming one of those golfers who has a thousand swing thoughts in their head, stemming from wholesale swing changes instead of just relaxing and playing. I quite like the more organic approach of finding your own swing really.
• don't really have time to spend hours at the range trying to ingrain swing changes, I just play my weekend round(s) and that's it.

I had a shanking problem earlier in the year which pushed me to consider lessons, but I've managed to work through it for the time being, and recently got a nice two shot cut into the bargain, so lessons are back off the agenda - at least while we're still mid-season anyway.

I hear you. I can practise for 5 to 20 minutes a night in the back garden with those little plastic balls but I really only get one round a week.

For the most part I’ve worked through all of the swing issues as they arise but my problem is nothing ever sticks for long and it’s a constant cycle of inconsistency.

 

[inc0gnito]

Obviously, a lot depends on the pro. Part of the equation is finding the right person to work with. For me, that is a pro who uses data, and works from that. Neither the pro I work with or myself care about positions, we look at impact data, assess what change will make the biggest impact, then work on what can provide that change. Most of the work we do is based on having a clear understanding and a task.

I see this as the way golf teaching will move to in the future, as the ability to get impact data becomes easier and easier with technology.

Yeah this is why I mentioned in my OP about getting the right pro. I don’t have many friends who golf and they don’t get lessons. So finding a good pro is a stab in the dark.

The thread was mainly about everyone’s perspectives and experiences. And so far most seem positive.

 

[inc0gnito]

I have only had 3 lessons the first was totally a waste of money the pro tried to get me to do something I was physical incapable of, the second was a short game lesson and I didn’t learn anything that I didn’t already know, the third lesson was a 6 hole playing lesson but I parred the first 4 holes so what I thought would be a good experience ended up with a feeling that I wasted my money.

This is one of the things im afraid of. Throwing money down the clubhouse toilet bowl for lessons that don’t work!

 

[inc0gnito]

I don't mean to be rude and I apologise if this comes over as rude but with the greatest respect you started quite an interesting thread earlier talking about how you were thinking of giving up because you are failing to break 100 regularly.
To me this rather suggests that you have not go a swing that is likely to be damaged by the wrong lessons.
There may well be poor PGA pros just as there are in any walk of life you can get bad advice from doctors, lawyers , accountants etc, but generally speaking these people have been well trained and will give you good advice.
A PGA Pro has been taught how to analyse your golf and how to improve it , a few may not do it well but I suspect the vast majority will improve a golfer unable to break 100 regularly if they are prepared to put in the work and see them regularly ( though it may not need to be frequently) rather than the very occasional lessons with different pros you appear to have taken.
I am not a natural sportsman or a great golfer and took it up as an adult and had quite a few years where I lived abroad and could not play , I have a 17 handicap and shoot in the 80's on a regular basis but I'm absolutely certain I could not have got to the level I have without lessons though many can obviously get to a better level. My current problem is being able to find the time to get more lessons as I want to get my handicap down.

PS I would add that after lessons I inevitably play a little worse as it takes a while for new things to bed in but the long term trajectory has been improvement after lessons.

Didn’t come across as rude, and you’ve offered good advice. You make a good point that (1) it’s the same as any industry and you get some poor workmen, and (2) my swing is probably so inconsistent that there would be high likelihood of a general benefit to lessons.

I actually do have 3 lessons paid for that I’ve yet to use. Bought them months ago. It’s getting the time to take them. I really did this backwards and should have done all that in the winter instead of playing in the freezing mud!

 

[jusme]

I feel your concerns OP. Unless you know a good pro (from recommendations or reviews) it could be an expensive and time wasting experience - it could take several goes to get the right one. Everyone on here is very (mostly) positive about lessons but this is based on the prtemises of a good pro in situ.

I've never taken lessons, primarily as I don't have the time to invest what is needed in the relationship. I do believe without the time to invest it is a waste of money. If you have the time/energy/money then it is indeed a worthwhile experience to hunt down the right pro and work long term with him/her. Little else will improve your game to the same extent

 

[Hobbit]

There are good pros and bad pros. And there's also good pros who just don't connect with someone for whatever reason. I've experienced them all.

On the self-diagnosis point; I used to believe in this. I've played for over 50 years, most of which has been at low single figures. I thought I knew my swing well enough to correct issues. Wrong! A few years ago I was shooting ok-ish scores but I couldn't shoot 2 or 3 lower to win the odd comp. I knew something wasn't quite right but hadn't a clue what it was.

In passing, I mentioned it to my son, a pro. He watched me during a round, and said "you're doing x, and you should be doing y." It was a minor tweak. I couldn't 'see' the fault but it was obvious to him. Sorted in less than 5 minutes.

Find a pro who you're comfortable with, and one who works with what you have. Once you've used him a few times he will know your swing. Use him for the odd 'service,' like keeping your car at peak performance.