WW3 -All Russia / Ukraine stuff here please-

Dando said:
I’m not your mate!
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That takes me back to a pre-season friendly against Aldershot in the 90s, drinking in a pub with some squaddies before the game, thought we was having a good laugh with them etc, just about to leave my mate says to one of them “see you later mate” squaddies goes “I’m not your mate” and tries to nut him! ?

Big scuffle and off we run!?
 
Fade and Die said:
That takes me back to a pre-season friendly against Aldershot in the 90s, drinking in a pub with some squaddies before the game, thought we was having a good laugh with them etc, just about to leave my mate says to one of them “see you later mate” squaddies goes “I’m not your mate” and tries to nut him! ?

Big scuffle and off we run!?
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Little man syndrome that.

Bit like Putin.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
And many people said he would and plenty gave warnings

Putin has been desperate to get them back under the Russian Flag

It wasn’t a surprise to many



how many times has a nuclear weapon been deployed in the last 70 years and in that same period how many conflicts have there been ? Countless and Russia has been included in a number of those conflicts

Can you even understand the step up from invading Ukraine to deploying a nuclear weapon which will result in world wide destruction - there have 100 other situations over the past 70 years which have been far worse and yet not a sniff of nuclear action

Russia will not deploy a nuclear warhead into Ukraine - and they certainly aren’t going to send one into a NATO country , threat levels in the Uk etc haven’t changed

Putin knows that some people will react and start to panic, the media will fuel that , propaganda will go into full flow - thankfully the majority won’t , and won’t bow down to him

His invasion into Ukraine is going wrong , he will punish Generals etc and a ceasefire will happen with some give and take within Ukraine borders.
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Can you please name the 100 other situations over the last 70 years that were far worse than this? Are you saying that, during the cold war there was not a sniff of nuclear action? If so, I wish you had been around at that time, and you could have told the world there was nothing to worry about. I'm pretty sure that some people around at the time, including the politicians and military personnel would tell you that at times, there was very much a sniff of nuclear action. Not just a sniff, but a strong stench of it.
 
Swango1980 said:
Can you please name the 100 other situations over the last 70 years that were far worse than this? Are you saying that, during the cold war there was not a sniff of nuclear action? If so, I wish you had been around at that time, and you could have told the world there was nothing to worry about. I'm pretty sure that some people around at the time, including the politicians and military personnel would tell you that at times, there was very much a sniff of nuclear action. Not just a sniff, but a strong stench of it.
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Take your pick through all these

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_1945–1989

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_1990–2002

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_2003–present

And there is a list of “close calls”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_close_calls

Cuban missile crisis is the closest it’s been and that was 60 years ago


There was an exercise in 83 where Russia thought it was real and were looking at what steps to take

https://www.businessinsider.com/when-nuclear-war-almost-happened-2018-4?amp

It’s very good subject to research of which I had to do ten years ago
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Take your pick through all these

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_1945–1989

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_1990–2002

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_2003–present

And there is a list of “close calls”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_close_calls

Cuban missile crisis is the closest it’s been and that was 60 years ago


There was an exercise in 83 where Russia thought it was real and were looking at what steps to take

https://www.businessinsider.com/when-nuclear-war-almost-happened-2018-4?amp

It’s very good subject to research of which I had to do ten years ago
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You are just listing wars, most of which (if not all) are nothing like what is happening now. Unless you are telling me the war against the Iraqi Police and Kurdish Democrats brought us closer to nuclear war!?

Furthermore, your some of your links completely contradict your statement that we have never has a "sniff of nuclear action". Unless you simply mean the red button was never actually pushed, even though someone's finger might have had the big red button half pushed down? In which case, your comments provide me no comfort. I want the red button no where near Putin, I don't want him looking at it and I don't want his finger to make contact it whatsoever (or whoever he authorizes to do it)
 
From the wider stuff and concerns over which as individuals we have little control and hopefully won't impact us a terribly as they might.

A couple of rather important questions closer to us all for which I think clarification is required pretty asap.

Are Brits OK to go to Ukraine to fight or not (as part of some form of International Brigade)?

Is UK going to adopt the EU position of waiving visas and giving temporary refuge (for three years) for Ukrainian refugees?
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
From the wider stuff and concerns over which as individuals we have little control and hopefully won't impact us a terribly as they might.

A couple of rather important questions closer to us all for which I think clarification is required pretty asap.

Are Brits OK to go to Ukraine to fight or not (as part of some form of International Brigade)?

Is UK going to adopt the EU position of waiving visas and giving temporary refuge (for three years) for Ukrainian refugees?
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Liz Truss has already said "yes".
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
A couple of rather important questions for the UK for which I think clarification is required pretty asap.

Are Brits OK to go to Ukraine to fight or not?

Is UK going to adopt the EU position of waiving visas and giving temporary refuge (for three years) for Ukrainian refugees?
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To me, that seemed like a ridiculously irresponsible, dangerous thing for our foreign secretary, Liz Truss to say. Clearly we want to avoid going to war with Russia in every single sense, yet our own foreign secretary publicly gives the green light for British citizens to go and fight against the Russians if they want to. How on earth would you expect the Russians to interpret that? Not well I'd imagine. Have any other western leaders given their citizens the green light to go and fight in Ukraine?
 
Liverpoolphil said:
And many people said he would and plenty gave warnings

Putin has been desperate to get them back under the Russian Flag

It wasn’t a surprise to many



how many times has a nuclear weapon been deployed in the last 70 years and in that same period how many conflicts have there been ? Countless and Russia has been included in a number of those conflicts

Can you even understand the step up from invading Ukraine to deploying a nuclear weapon which will result in world wide destruction - there have 100 other situations over the past 70 years which have been far worse and yet not a sniff of nuclear action

Russia will not deploy a nuclear warhead into Ukraine - and they certainly aren’t going to send one into a NATO country , threat levels in the Uk etc haven’t changed

Putin knows that some people will react and start to panic, the media will fuel that , propaganda will go into full flow - thankfully the majority won’t , and won’t bow down to him

His invasion into Ukraine is going wrong , he will punish Generals etc and a ceasefire will happen with some give and take within Ukraine borders.
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The risk has increased greatly. The last time the Russian strategic forces were at this alert level was during the Cuban crisis. You don't deploy strategic forces. They are permanently deployed, they just need a target point and launch approval.

Edit: MAD only works as a deterrent if all parties with their fingers on the button aren't mad.
 
Beezerk said:
He will probably use the talks to buy time and then blame Ukraine for some strange atrocity and carry on his attack. Those are the words of the ex NATO adviser on the radio this morning btw not mine.
Putin has lost the plot, he now seems to be acting as a total psychopath, it does make you wonder how much support he has in the Kremlin.
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This although any time bought gives other countries time to send one or two military items. If anyone in Ukraine has Amazon prime and they are sent through Amazon the Ukrainian’s will be armed to the teeth tomorrow
 
Lord Tyrion said:
On a lighter note, these two stories came out about the hugely impressive Ukranian President this morning. 1/ He won the Ukranian version of Strictly. 2/ He was the voice of Paddington in the Ukranian versions. (he used to be an actor) Paddington v the Russians. In a story of horror you need little bright spots.
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Marmalade Butties to be eaten at snap time during the peace talks me finks ?
 
Interesting that Switzerland has adopted the full set of EU sanctions. Suspect that has hit a few people as my thought would be that there would be quite a bit of money stashed there just in case there were any issues with the Russian banks.
 
Tashyboy said:
Marmalade Butties to be eaten at snap time during the peace talks me finks ?
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Every little helps.

One thing I was thinking, not Paddington related. Putin needs an out at some stage, we hope. If he is not going to walk through Ukraine he may either commit all sorts of horrors as retribution or he needs a way to withdraw whilst looking strong, proclaiming some form of victory. Face, strength matters to someone like him, who rules through fear. Would he take the two eastern regions as enough? Would Ukraine accept that as a price for peace?
 
Lord Tyrion said:
Every little helps.

One thing I was thinking, not Paddington related. Putin needs an out at some stage, we hope. If he is not going to walk through Ukraine he may either commit all sorts of horrors as retribution or he needs a way to withdraw whilst looking strong, proclaiming some form of victory. Face, strength matters to someone like him, who rules through fear. Would he take the two eastern regions as enough? Would Ukraine accept that as a price for peace?
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I suspect that if it was put on the table that he could have control over the 2 eastern regions plus some sort of agreement on NATO membership then he would build that up as all he was looking for in the first place and call it quits. Not sure Ukraine would give up the regions so easily (maybe a referedum that would easily be controlled by Russia) but it would be an out that both could call a victory of sorts. It is the only peaceful way I can see out of this. Putin can keep hammering away with numbers until he wins or just flatten the country, Ukraine can hold on strongly for a period but not indefnitely. I suspect that this is the sort of deal that will end up on the table. Strangely perhaps a deal that sees Ukraine joing the EU but not NATO and so they have European defensive allies but it keeps the US out of it.
 
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