WW3 -All Russia / Ukraine stuff here please-

tugglesf239 said:
Putin has never fought any actual wars, only special operations.

Invading Crimea with a 1 million populace or fighing a proxy war in Syria using Syrian Militia, is a world away from a full on invasion of a country of 45 million people.

There are making a total hash of this. They are even unable to keep supply lines open on there own boarder crossings.

One things for certain. Even if they manage to overthrow the Ukrainian government, the reputation of the ruskie armed forces is in tatters.

Spetsnaz my arse ?
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It’s too late for him to save face. Putin is the most hated man since Adolf Hitler. All or nothing. Nukes being prepped in Belarus as we speak.

Doesn’t look good for Ukraine unfortunately. It’s a personal vendetta for Putin now and he won’t stop.
 
Bamberdele21 said:
It’s too late for him to save face. Putin is the most hated man since Adolf Hitler. All or nothing. Nukes being prepped in Belarus as we speak.

Doesn’t look good for Ukraine unfortunately. It’s a personal vendetta for Putin now and he won’t stop.
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?‍♂️

If he won’t stop and is ready to press the big red button why then is he so desperate for talks with Ukraine ?

The reason is simple - they have made a mess of it , they thought weight of numbers would steamroll them to take over the Country - it hasn’t happened and Ukraine are fighting back in a big way taking back areas
 
Liverpoolphil said:
?‍♂️

If he won’t stop and is ready to press the big red button why then is he so desperate for talks with Ukraine ?

The reason is simple - they have made a mess of it , they thought weight of numbers would steamroll them to take over the Country - it hasn’t happened and Ukraine are fighting back in a big way taking back areas
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Simple answer is he’s going to make unreasonable demands where he gets the ‘ok’ from his people saying he ‘tried’. It’s a trap.

The talks also bolster him enough time to get more military back up with the added help from Belarus.

Failing that I imagine he would be butt hurt enough to press a red button.

Too many people jacked up on hopium and not really seeing the reality of the situation.
 
Bamberdele21 said:
Simple answer is he’s going to make unreasonable demands where he gets the ‘ok’ from his people saying he ‘tried’. It’s a trap.

The talks also bolster him enough time to get more military back up with the added help from Belarus.

Failing that I imagine he would be butt hurt enough to press a red button.

Too many people jacked up on hopium and not really seeing the reality of the situation.
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He doesn’t press the red button!
 
Bamberdele21 said:
Simple answer is he’s going to make unreasonable demands where he gets the ‘ok’ from his people saying he ‘tried’. It’s a trap.

The talks also bolster him enough time to get more military back up with the added help from Belarus.

Failing that I imagine he would be butt hurt enough to press a red button.

Too many people jacked up on hopium and not really seeing the reality of the situation.
Click to expand...

Think you need to stop play COD on your games console or watching too many fiction movies
 
tugglesf239 said:
Putin has never fought any actual wars, only special operations.

Invading Crimea with a 1 million populace or fighing a proxy war in Syria using Syrian Militia, is a world away from a full on invasion of a country of 45 million people.

There are making a total hash of this. They are even unable to keep supply lines open on there own boarder crossings.

One things for certain. Even if they manage to overthrow the Ukrainian government, the reputation of the ruskie armed forces is in tatters.

Spetsnaz my arse ?
Click to expand...


I'm not sure, seems standard soviet military tactics for me. They are advancing as far enough as supplies allow (still very fast). They will use the conscripts to identify strong points. Like to slaughter, then use proper troops to go in and clean up, with NVD's at night. The conscripts have been ordered to fight in sunlight as they don't even have access to night vision!

The only off thing to this is it's hard to tell who actually controls most of the airfields. The downing of the 2 IL 76's and the fact Ukraine still has an air presence is a big shock. And would indicate that it's not all going Ruski's way.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
If he won’t stop and is ready to press the big red button why then is he so desperate for talks with Ukraine ?
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He will probably use the talks to buy time and then blame Ukraine for some strange atrocity and carry on his attack. Those are the words of the ex NATO adviser on the radio this morning btw not mine.
Putin has lost the plot, he now seems to be acting as a total psychopath, it does make you wonder how much support he has in the Kremlin.
 
I'm not concerned, at this point, about his use of the big red button, my concerns are the weapons below that level that he'll have absolutely no issues with using on the Ukraine. His ideal would have been to roll into the Ukraine and face little resistance, break the population and the job is done. It's obviously not working out like that and he's suffered greater losses that he'd expected and also the level of embarrassment he's facing with his supposedly well trained army being kept at bay by Ukraine's own arm and their militia. That said I don't think we should be under any illusion that if he really wants to take Ukraine he can do, it's just what will be left of it when his tanks roll into Kiev etc.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
?‍♂️

If he won’t stop and is ready to press the big red button why then is he so desperate for talks with Ukraine ?

The reason is simple - they have made a mess of it , they thought weight of numbers would steamroll them to take over the Country - it hasn’t happened and Ukraine are fighting back in a big way taking back areas
Click to expand...
Many people said Putin would NOT annex Crimea, start a war in Donbas or invade the entire of Ukraine. But he did.

On Thursday Putin said "To anyone who would consider interfering from the outside - if you do, you will face consequences greater than any you have faced in history". That sounds like a pretty major threat related to the use of nuclear weapons.

Apparently Putin has said many times "if there is no Russia, why do we need a planet?"

Right now, Russia have their backs up against the wall. Nearly the entire world are not only against their invasion, but are implementing sanctions on Russia that are going to severely weaken it over the years to come. Even if he backs down, he will be seen as weak to his supporters, whilst being unable to build Russia's trust with the world, and building its economy again. So, to Putin, this severe miscalculation could make him feel like Russia is a broken nation. If so, how will be act.

For those saying he definitely wouldn't have the red button pressed, I assume you are making that assessment based on how you would behave yourself. Yourself being, I'd assume, a fairly rational individual. You are not making that assessment based on an inside knowledge to what is in Putin's head? But, I also believe you would also say that there is no way on earth you'd have launched an entire invasion on Ukraine? That such a move would likely work out very badly for your country.

This may all sound like some fictional movie or video game. But, history has told us that from time to time, incidents happen that you'd think you'd only ever see in a movie.

I'd love to think of a way Putin could come to a position where he pulls out of Ukraine (or at least an extent agreeable to the Ukrainian people), in which he feels he can rebuild Russia's connections to the rest of the world to ensure their economy is strong, whilst saving face and looking like a strong and powerful leader. However, it is hard to see how that could be done, the damage is done. I'd imagine to him, NATO is pretty much at war with Russia now, whether or not they actually send troops into Ukraine or not.
 
Swango1980 said:
Many people said Putin would NOT annex Crimea, start a war in Donbas or invade the entire of Ukraine. But he did.

On Thursday Putin said "To anyone who would consider interfering from the outside - if you do, you will face consequences greater than any you have faced in history". That sounds like a pretty major threat related to the use of nuclear weapons.

Apparently Putin has said many times "if there is no Russia, why do we need a planet?"

Right now, Russia have their backs up against the wall. Nearly the entire world are not only against their invasion, but are implementing sanctions on Russia that are going to severely weaken it over the years to come. Even if he backs down, he will be seen as weak to his supporters, whilst being unable to build Russia's trust with the world, and building its economy again. So, to Putin, this severe miscalculation could make him feel like Russia is a broken nation. If so, how will be act.

For those saying he definitely wouldn't have the red button pressed, I assume you are making that assessment based on how you would behave yourself. Yourself being, I'd assume, a fairly rational individual. You are not making that assessment based on an inside knowledge to what is in Putin's head? But, I also believe you would also say that there is no way on earth you'd have launched an entire invasion on Ukraine? That such a move would likely work out very badly for your country.

This may all sound like some fictional movie or video game. But, history has told us that from time to time, incidents happen that you'd think you'd only ever see in a movie.

I'd love to think of a way Putin could come to a position where he pulls out of Ukraine (or at least an extent agreeable to the Ukrainian people), in which he feels he can rebuild Russia's connections to the rest of the world to ensure their economy is strong, whilst saving face and looking like a strong and powerful leader. However, it is hard to see how that could be done, the damage is done. I'd imagine to him, NATO is pretty much at war with Russia now, whether or not they actually send troops into Ukraine or not.
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Yep. Hopefully, amongst all the other plans, somebody is working on a viable, face-saving exit strategy for him.
If he's playing a very long game, thinking 30 moves ahead, that might have been the plan all along.
We can only hope it's diabolical route to a moderate gain, rather than a grand plan that's backfiring horrendously.
 
On a lighter note, these two stories came out about the hugely impressive Ukranian President this morning. 1/ He won the Ukranian version of Strictly. 2/ He was the voice of Paddington in the Ukranian versions. (he used to be an actor) Paddington v the Russians. In a story of horror you need little bright spots.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
On a lighter note, these two stories came out about the hugely impressive Ukranian President this morning. 1/ He won the Ukranian version of Strictly. 2/ He was the voice of Paddington in the Ukranian versions. (he used to be an actor) Paddington v the Russians. In a story of horror you need little bright spots.
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Didn’t he have an acting role as the president before he actually became president?
 
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Swango1980 said:
Many people said Putin would NOT annex Crimea, start a war in Donbas or invade the entire of Ukraine. But he did.
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And many people said he would and plenty gave warnings

Putin has been desperate to get them back under the Russian Flag

It wasn’t a surprise to many

On Thursday Putin said "To anyone who would consider interfering from the outside - if you do, you will face consequences greater than any you have faced in history". That sounds like a pretty major threat related to the use of nuclear weapons.
Apparently Putin has said many times "if there is no Russia, why do we need a planet?"

Right now, Russia have their backs up against the wall. Nearly the entire world are not only against their invasion, but are implementing sanctions on Russia that are going to severely weaken it over the years to come. Even if he backs down, he will be seen as weak to his supporters, whilst being unable to build Russia's trust with the world, and building its economy again. So, to Putin, this severe miscalculation could make him feel like Russia is a broken nation. If so, how will be act.

For those saying he definitely wouldn't have the red button pressed, I assume you are making that assessment based on how you would behave yourself. Yourself being, I'd assume, a fairly rational individual. You are not making that assessment based on an inside knowledge to what is in Putin's head? But, I also believe you would also say that there is no way on earth you'd have launched an entire invasion on Ukraine? That such a move would likely work out very badly for your country.

This may all sound like some fictional movie or video game. But, history has told us that from time to time, incidents happen that you'd think you'd only ever see in a movie.

I'd love to think of a way Putin could come to a position where he pulls out of Ukraine (or at least an extent agreeable to the Ukrainian people), in which he feels he can rebuild Russia's connections to the rest of the world to ensure their economy is strong, whilst saving face and looking like a strong and powerful leader. However, it is hard to see how that could be done, the damage is done. I'd imagine to him, NATO is pretty much at war with Russia now, whether or not they actually send troops into Ukraine or not.
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how many times has a nuclear weapon been deployed in the last 70 years and in that same period how many conflicts have there been ? Countless and Russia has been included in a number of those conflicts

Can you even understand the step up from invading Ukraine to deploying a nuclear weapon which will result in world wide destruction - there have 100 other situations over the past 70 years which have been far worse and yet not a sniff of nuclear action

Russia will not deploy a nuclear warhead into Ukraine - and they certainly aren’t going to send one into a NATO country , threat levels in the Uk etc haven’t changed

Putin knows that some people will react and start to panic, the media will fuel that , propaganda will go into full flow - thankfully the majority won’t , and won’t bow down to him

His invasion into Ukraine is going wrong , he will punish Generals etc and a ceasefire will happen with some give and take within Ukraine borders.
 
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