WW3 -All Russia / Ukraine stuff here please-

My concern is that Putin has miscalculated how quickly they could do this, or the reaction from most other countries. However, he is not someone who will back down or admit he made a mistake. A sensible person may not take it too far. We can't guarantee that of Putin. He's nuts.
 
FIA another gutless organization, they are allowing Russian driver Mazepin to compete.

His father is a major financial backer to the Hass team, and has ties with Putin so no surprise really.

All about the money …. again.
 
Rlburnside said:
FIA another gutless organization, they are allowing Russian driver Mazepin to compete.

His father is a major financial backer to the Hass team, and has ties with Putin so no surprise really.

All about the money …. again.
Click to expand...

Give it 24-48 hours and they may follow suit in the same way UEFA/FIFA did. These are spineless organisations without contact with the real world, so it takes a day or two of outrage for them to change their position.
 
Swango1980 said:
I see Russian athletes have now been banned from competing. The world of sport has very much reacted to this war, and I very much see why these decisions have been made. However, got me thinking. If individual athletes have been banned from athletics, should the same apply for other sports. Should Russian tennis players, football players, etc be banned?

Furthermore, is it actually the right response. I saw the other day a Russian tennis player wrote "Please No War" on the camera during a match. We need to.somehow get the message through to normal Russian people as possible. Sport can be powerful, and banning Russia completely might help.do this. But, if Russian athletes and teams could still compete, but with the name Russia and flag clearly removed and continually explained, would this send a more powerful response to Russian people? Especially if their sports stars give out strong messages to stop the war?

We need to find innovative ways to get messages through to Russian people, especially as the state isolate them more from external media sources.
Click to expand...

I think you're right about this. (y)

There is a difference in that athletes are there representing their country, whereas footballers are representing a club. However, it's not really fair to exclude some sportspeople but not others. The athletes could easily compete under the neutral IOC banner, as has happened before and as it should have been as a consequence of the doping scandal - the idea that the Russian Olympic Committee were somehow not representing Russia is ludicrous!

I guess the difficulty will always be about where we draw the line? Do we allow Russian clubs into European football (for example) because they are representing a city, not a country? Or do we only allow Russians in team sports if they play for a non-Russian club?
 
Lilyhawk said:
Give it 24-48 hours and they may follow suit in the same way UEFA/FIFA did. These are spineless organisations without contact with the real world, so it takes a day or two of outrage for them to change their position.
Click to expand...
Do they ban all Russian footballers, tennis players etc etc from playing?
On the football front, yes ban the teams but what about Russian players in other countries and teams?
If they're not "representing" Russia should they be banned?
Say, a Russian playing footy for Millwall or something...?
Not saying they shouldn't be..just thinking out loud..
 
Jimaroid said:
They should ban all Russian participation. No exceptions. Sporting individuals can suffer alive whilst the Ukrainians suffer being dead.

I have no sympathy.
Click to expand...

I get your view, but that will just further engender anti-West sentiment amongst the general population. A huge part of any modern conflict is the battle for hearts and minds and we have to be seen to be acting in a way that makes normal Russian citizens understand that they are part of something bigger than Russia. If not, it just makes it easier for those who wish to create a population that is firmly committed to hating the West/Democracy.

Don't forget also, it was the idea that an entire people should be punished that led to huge sanctions against Germany after WW1...which then provided the melting pot in which Hitler was able to rise to power and act in the way he did. We study History for a reason, it's just a shame that we rarely seem to learn from it!
 
S
Robster59 said:
My concern is that Putin has miscalculated how quickly they could do this, or the reaction from most other countries. However, he is not someone who will back down or admit he made a mistake. A sensible person may not take it too far. We can't guarantee that of Putin. He's nuts.
Click to expand...
So at some point, with all those around Putin screaming about the pain and very severe damage the sanctions are causing them and the country, does the West ease things slightly and tell Putin to withdraw or standdown now that he knows the pain the West can and will inflict for as long as it takes.

I am not sure that mantaining without any let up at all, the absolute maximum pain on Putin will bring about the desired outcome without him first doing things we consider completely unconscionable. He needs a get out - I've heard it referred to as an exit ramp - a way out that he might take. With sanctions and other measures as tight as they are, and as they further tighten, there is absolutely no room for him to move. And if the West eases and he doesn't and nothing changes, then the screw is tightened back up.

Simply nervous about where things are leading given the West is dealing with someone who is a controlling narcissist and, as you say, quite possibly nuts...
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
S
So at some point, with all those around Putin screaming about the pain and damage the sanctions are causing them and the country, does the West ease things slightly and tell Putin to withdraw or standdown now that he knows the pain the West can and will inflict for as long as it takes.

I am not sure that maintaining, without any let up at all, the absolute maximum pain on Putin will bring about the desired outcome without him first doing things we consider completely unconscionable. He needs a get out - I've heard it referred to as an exit ramp - a way out that he might take. With sanctions and other measures as tight as they are, and as they further tighten, there is absolutely no room for him to move. And the West eases and he doesn't and nothing changes, then the screw is tightened back up.
Click to expand...

While he is still continuing the invasion and innocents are dying then I am all for ramping the measures up. The ball is firmly in his court and I think he knows (or should know/be told) and he needs t make the first move by halting the advance now. After that there can be discussions about relinquishing the towns, cities and installations taken and then talks about Ukraine as a whole and future threats. We're a long, long way from any of those, without any indication of even a pause happening so sorry but I disagree and we do all we can to throttle Putin's plans and economy
 
I have no sympathy for any Russian, sportsperson or otherwise. There are over 144 million people living in Russia. I have visited the country several times and they are, on the whole, happy to go with the flow even though many are aware of what is going on in their country.

Allowing athletes to compete under a neutral flag is a cop out.

This is just my opinion obviously and it may be controversial but the IOC gave Hitler the world stage and we seem to forget that history has a nasty habit of repeating itself.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top