WW3 -All Russia / Ukraine stuff here please-

SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Indeed it is. But normally I wouldn't implement an action plan without having a very good idea of how long things were going to take for it to have the desired effect - and if I didn't know I'd have a load of contingences in place for different timescales for the issue continuing. I fear the West is rather playing things by ear - making up our contingencies as we go along. Maybe that's all that can be done, but it is not a comfortable place to be when you know that the target of your action plan is a ticking timebomb and you have no idea how much time is on the clock.
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To be fair that might well be the case, you're having to walk a very fine line of supporting Ukraine but not getting to the point where Putin presses the button. Listening to a guy on the radio who has a background in Russian military he was trying to get across that anyone who doesn't think that Russia would use nukes is incorrect. Whilst they may be viewed as a weapon of last resort in the West, in Russian they are a bomb "with a bigger bang" according to him and they're viewed as part of conventional warfare. A scary thought that the escalation could happen very quickly and once it does it'll be hard to reign in.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Indeed it is. But normally I wouldn't implement an action plan without having a very good idea of how long things were going to take for it to have the desired effect - and if I didn't know I'd have a load of contingences in place for different timescales for the issue continuing. I fear the West is rather playing things by ear - making up our contingencies as we go along. Maybe that's all that can be done, but it is not a comfortable place to be when you know that the target of your action plan is a ticking timebomb and you have no idea how much time is on the clock.
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Do you really think you are asking questions that western leaders haven't. People that include experts in conflicts like this?

As others have said, if you want to end this quickly, start WW3 or concede to Russia, both of which would be disastrous.

Or, make things as difficult and painful for Russia. Have western countries unite and show our strength in unity. However, what else can you expect? For someone to say "this will be over by 23rd April 2023". How can you expect a timescale, especially when Russia and Putin are determined to put up a fight.

As for contingency plans. I am pretty sure there are hundreds of contingency plans for every single scenario they can try and imagine. That is what I would expect from leading military and political experts around the world anyway.
 
I see Russian athletes have now been banned from competing. The world of sport has very much reacted to this war, and I very much see why these decisions have been made. However, got me thinking. If individual athletes have been banned from athletics, should the same apply for other sports. Should Russian tennis players, football players, etc be banned?

Furthermore, is it actually the right response. I saw the other day a Russian tennis player wrote "Please No War" on the camera during a match. We need to.somehow get the message through to normal Russian people as possible. Sport can be powerful, and banning Russia completely might help.do this. But, if Russian athletes and teams could still compete, but with the name Russia and flag clearly removed and continually explained, would this send a more powerful response to Russian people? Especially if their sports stars give out strong messages to stop the war?

We need to find innovative ways to get messages through to Russian people, especially as the state isolate them more from external media sources.
 
Swango1980 said:
I see Russian athletes have now been banned from competing. The world of sport has very much reacted to this war, and I very much see why these decisions have been made. However, got me thinking. If individual athletes have been banned from athletics, should the same apply for other sports. Should Russian tennis players, football players, etc be banned?

Furthermore, is it actually the right response. I saw the other day a Russian tennis player wrote "Please No War" on the camera during a match. We need to.somehow get the message through to normal Russian people as possible. Sport can be powerful, and banning Russia completely might help.do this. But, if Russian athletes and teams could still compete, but with the name Russia and flag clearly removed and continually explained, would this send a more powerful response to Russian people? Especially if their sports stars give out strong messages to stop the war?

We need to find innovative ways to get messages through to Russian people, especially as the state isolate them more from external media sources.
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Ban Russian teams, but not individuals - unless clearly 'state representatives' - imo.
 
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That second video doesn't look good at all. Not that the first wasn't terrible but that looked very much like a mushroom on exploding. Is there any confirmation anywhere that it wasn't what it looked like
 
It’s an ammo dump most likely. Possibly vacuum bomb but unconfirmed either way. A large air explosion whatever it was but fairly conventional.
 
I have the LiveScore App, good one to keep track of footy scores. Even they have sent out a notification to say they will not be showing any scores from Russian football competitions for the foreseeable future.
 
Are these videos confirmed?

Watching the main news, they are focused on the 40mile unit moving towards Kiev, along with the bombing of the TV Tower and the bombing of that building in the other city in northern Ukraine.

However, I have not seen any reports on those images (not watching it 24/7, so maybe missed it).

However, with such a huge explosion, surely that would be a main headline on Sky News if it was verified!?
 
Swango1980 said:
One thing that puzzles me is that I have not really seen an fighter jets being used in the war, at least by the Russians. Maybe they are being used in abundance outside the cities, away from the cameras, but I thought their air force would be a lot more visible in this war. I've seen plenty of tanks, a few helicopters and other general military road vehicles.

I did read an interesting article that provide some possible reasons that the Russian fighter jets were not being used up to now, and gave reasons such as:
  • Limited weapons stockpile for them
  • Many of their weaponry from aircrafts cannot be fired with accuracy
  • Risk of friendly fire
  • Lack of flying hours for trained Russian pilots
I wonder if Russia are simply holding back, but likely to release their air force into cities at some point in the future.
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One other reason was the amount of ground to air weapons and missiles sent to Ukraine. Russia has a bad history with Stingers.
 
Swango1980 said:
Are these videos confirmed?

Watching the main news, they are focused on the 40mile unit moving towards Kiev, along with the bombing of the TV Tower and the bombing of that building in the other city in northern Ukraine.

However, I have not seen any reports on those images (not watching it 24/7, so maybe missed it).

However, with such a huge explosion, surely that would be a main headline on Sky News if it was verified!?
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It takes time to verify. There are multiple videos appearing and they appear to corroborate. Mainstream media may not show them in case people jump to the wrong conclusions about a large shockwave anyway.

We may be wrong of course but all the signs point towards the reality of the real army turning up now.
 
Foxholer said:
I had the same puzzling thoughts - along with wonder about the slow speed of movement of the vast number of troops assembled.
I don't believe any of those 'reasons' above are anywhere near valid for this situation - and seems more likely to be propoganda type 'reporting'. There was certainly some Air Force activity in the 2014 annexation of Crimea though.
The entire exercise seems to be more a demonstration of strength rather than actual battles/conquest.
Maybe the goal is to 'recover' the provinces with significant Russian presence - the ones near Crimea/Russia and Belarus - via negotiation rather than conquest.
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Major part of the convoy is soft skin vehicles which would be very vulnerable to attack so I would assume a huge clearance exercise of foot either side of the convoy.
 
Old Skier said:
America reports that no confirmation of a vacuum or thermobaric weapon being used. I suspect that with the amount of eyes in the skys in the area they would soon, I hope, be able to tell.
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It’s not beyond the realms of possibility of it being more media propaganda and fake stories - the whole conflict so far is full of them
 
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