wrong drop

[Colin L]

You are getting caught up in the drop, Im more interested in knowing if in theory the score could have been changed once the correct ruling on relief was gained?

I've just asked my mate, and he says i took two club drop no nearer the hole. If i had taken 1 club from the NPR i would have had a much better line to the green

It's been made very clear several times that you could not have had your score changed.

The reason for the interest in how you proceeded with your drop was that had you used a nearest point of relief when proceeding with an unplayable ball, you would (other than by a very improbable chance) have played from a wrong place with a 2 stroke penalty and the possibility of a DQ had you gained a significant advantage ("a much better line to the hole" suggests you might have!).

But fortunately you made a correct drop and only suffer the 1 stroke penalty.

 

[patricks148]

Only if you had played with 2 balls from the correct spot.

Can't believe your mate knows better than you where you actually dropped though!

I can hardly remember my own name sometimes.

so if i had played two balls the result could have been rectified, once the correct rule was Identified?

 

[Fyldewhite]

so if i had played two balls the result could have been rectified, once the correct rule was Identified?

Yes, if you score differently with each ball you report facts to committee, they establish the correct ruling and accept the score made with that ball, you then sign/submit card.

Happened to me in a club final once. Ball was in a pile of branches on edge of trees. Took a penalty drop with one ball and a free drop with another. Made a 6 with the penalty ball, knocked it on and holed the putt for birdie with the free drop ball. Committee accepted that the branches were "piled for removal" and therefore GUR and a 3 shot swing to the good!!

 

[patricks148]

Yes, if you score differently with each ball you report facts to committee, they establish the correct ruling and accept the score made with that ball, you then sign/submit card.

Happened to me in a club final once. Ball was in a pile of branches on edge of trees. Took a penalty drop with one ball and a free drop with another. Made a 6 with the penalty ball, knocked it on and holed the putt for birdie with the free drop ball. Committee accepted that the branches were "piled for removal" and therefore GUR and a 3 shot swing to the good!!

Id already signed the card with the higher score so, before finding out the correct info. You would expect the HS to know these things, after all it can't be the first time this has happened, there are at least 5 of these shelters on the course and none are more the 50 yards from a green.

 

[palindromicbob]

Id already signed the card with the higher score so, before finding out the correct info. You would expect the HS to know these things, after all it can't be the first time this has happened, there are at least 5 of these shelters on the course and none are more the 50 yards from a green.

When playing a second ball you would need to have declared which one you wish to count if the rules permitted before playing another stroke.

In your case you had the unplayable lie. 2 club length drop from where the ball lies, back in line with the pin as far as you wish or S&D (you don't actually state which option you took).

The other option was immovable obstruction 1 club length from nearest point of relief.

Before playing the ball you'd have to have said you which you want to count. In this case it would have been the one with free relief.

On your return the committee would have told you the same most likely that the unplayable was the one that counts but on finding out the ruling you would have grounds to challenge the committees decision but would need to raise it before the comp closed. After the competition has closed the decision stands whether it is right or wrong. Decision 34-3/3.9

 

[atticusfinch]

Yes, if you score differently with each ball you report facts to committee, they establish the correct ruling and accept the score made with that ball, you then sign/submit card.

Not to prolong this ad infinitum (Hic equus mortuus est.) but the committee will not simply accept the score made with a correct ball, the score recorded will be the score of the ball selected by the player (before he makes a stroke) assuming that ball was played according to the rules. If it was not played by the rules the score with the other ball counts, assuming it was played by the rules. If it was not, the rule gets complicated beyond human calculation and stephen hawking must be consulted.

 

[palindromicbob]

Not to prolong this ad infinitum (Hic equus mortuus est.) but the committee will not simply accept the score made with a correct ball, the score recorded will be the score of the ball selected by the player (before he makes a stroke) assuming that ball was played according to the rules. If it was not played by the rules the score with the other ball counts, assuming it was played by the rules. If it was not, the rule gets complicated beyond human calculation and stephen hawking must be consulted.

Not that hard. If neither ball is played under the rules and no serious breech then the score with the original counts plus addition of applicable penalty of 2 strokes.

If one ball was a serious breech and the other wasn't then the other ball counts with a 2 stroke penalty.

If both balls resulted in serious breech then it is a DQ or in the case of stableford it is an NR on the hole.

 

[duncan mackie]

Id already signed the card with the higher score so, before finding out the correct info. You would expect the HS to know these things, after all it can't be the first time this has happened, there are at least 5 of these shelters on the course and none are more the 50 yards from a green.

I share your concern that such a matter wasn't clearly understood by everyone, including those who should understand.

Regarding you having signed your card - that in itself isn't an issue. Once you have returned the card, as set out by the conditions of competition (normally, but not always via card in a box) that's it. You should have had a ruling from the competition committee before returning the card based on that ruling. If that ruling was changed before the competition was closed, your score could/should be adjusted (34-3/1).

Whilst I agree with my learned friends observations about using 2 separate balls under 3-3 they are wrong in suggesting that the rules require this. you can elect to drop a single ball in compliance with both alternatives and resolve later (3-3/11-12) but it is not recommended and can lead to really really difficult situations - in the example you have given here you could find one spot that complies with 28 and 24 but then the ball rolls such that the hut is now interfering with your swing...under 24 you would re-drop but under 28 you play etc it is such considerations that probably drove the comments above.

Always sorry to hear it when such incidents happen; committees really heed to tighten up on things (even if, as would happen at our club, the Handicap Sec would have told you he wasn't the person to ask a rules issue and point you to the right person!)

 

[rulefan]

Id already signed the card with the higher score so, before finding out the correct info. You would expect the HS to know these things, after all it can't be the first time this has happened, there are at least 5 of these shelters on the course and none are more the 50 yards from a green.

Even if you hadn't signed and returned your card, you still had the 1 stroke penalty. Even though you didn't know a free drop was available under 24-2 (immovable obstruction), you proceeded and played under rule 28 (unplayable). That penalty sticks. Neither the HS nor the committee can cancel that penalty.

If you have any doubt about what to do in a situation, before you proceed further declare you are going to play two balls. That's what the rule (3-3) is there for.

Incidentally, the post above by fyldewhite is not entirely accurate. The procedure is more specific than that and must be followed.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-03/#3-3

 

[Fyldewhite]

Incidentally, the post above by fyldewhite is not entirely accurate. The procedure is more specific than that and must be followed.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-03/#3-3

Absolutely. I was maybe generalising a little to make for a simpler read. No substitute for the rule book!

 

[patricks148]

Ive spoken to the club today on rec from an Ex Captain and when they print cards for next year they are going to include the drop info on the shelters as the current one says Greenkeepers sheds which is cousing the problem. App they had it on before but its been missed the last few years.

So at least this won't happen in a comp next year.