Wrong Advice Given

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

On Saturday I had occasion to look up a ruling for a playing companion. I had a copy of the rules on me. I couldn’t find a rule that I thought was there, but found a rule that seemed to perfectly cover the situation generally and the penalty and procedure he should follow seemed appropriate. My companion accepted the ruling (included a Gen Pen), followed the procedure in the rule, and we thought nothing more of it.

When home I dug around to see if there was a rule specific to the context of my companions breach. And there is - and I had given him the wrong rules guidance.

What should happen - I signed his card attesting his score.

Note…it was a medal and in the end he NRd, plus his score on the hole I made the mistake on was a nine so any further penalty applied to his score on the hole during the round, or indeed after, would not have made any difference to his handicap differential.

 

[bobmac]

You should report yourself to the pro, the committee, the captain, the police your MP the PM and Prince King Charles.
Or
In this case, no damage done so do nothing but learn to check a rule before signing the card.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

You are far better using the RoG app and using the search function than looking in a book.

 

[jim8flog]

You are far better using the RoG app and using the search function than looking in a book.

That depends on what phone you have and what your contract is.

 

[Maninblack4612]

To answer the question. He signed for a higher score, therefore it counts. Irrelevant how he came to do it.

 

[Crow]

You are far better using the RoG app and using the search function than looking in a book.

Personally I find the app awful and would much sooner use a book.
Rarely does the app give me the rule I'm looking for.

 

[rulie]

On Saturday I had occasion to look up a ruling for a playing companion. I had a copy of the rules on me. I couldn’t find a rule that I thought was there, but found a rule that seemed to perfectly cover the situation generally and the penalty and procedure he should follow seemed appropriate. My companion accepted the ruling (included a Gen Pen), followed the procedure in the rule, and we thought nothing more of it.

When home I dug around to see if there was a rule specific to the context of my companions breach. And there is - and I had given him the wrong rules guidance.

What should happen - I signed his card attesting his score.

Note…it was a medal and in the end he NRd, plus his score on the hole I made the mistake on was a nine so any further penalty applied to his score on the hole during the round, or indeed after, would not have made any difference to his handicap differential.

If there is any doubt, you should have brought it to the attention of the Committee before returning the score card. They will sort it.
Even though I'm a qualified referee, I'm not a referee when I'm playing - will give advice on procedures etc, but not make rulings.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Personally I find the app awful and would much sooner use a book.
Rarely does the app give me the rule I'm looking for.

Clearly the book doesn’t either!

 

[Steven Rules]

A few points to add here.

First, on a pedantic technicality. Providing information about the Rules is, by definition, not advice. So the title of this thread 'Wrong Advice Given' is a misnomer.

Second, players are responsible for applying the Rules to themselves and a player may ask for help with the Rules from a referee or the Committee. (Rule 1.3b(1)) As you were (presumably) neither a referee nor the Committee, the information or guidance you provided to the player had no standing under the Rules.

Third, as marker, if you had knowingly certified a wrong score for a hole you should be disqualified. (Rule 3.3b(1)) There is no suggestion that you knowingly certified a wrong score.

Fourth, in a doubtful Rules situation the player could have played a second ball and reported the facts of the situation to the Committee before returning the scorecard. (Rule 20.1c(3))

Finally, normally, a penalty must not be added or corrected after a stroke-play competition has closed but a player must be disqualified even after the competition is closed if they returned a score for any hole lower than actually taken. Except the player is not disqualified if the reason for the lower score is the exclusion of one or more penalty strokes that they did not know about before the competition closed. (Rule 20.2e(2))

 

[rulefan]

I had a copy of the rules on me.

Was it the current version of the Rules?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

A few points to add here.

First, on a pedantic technicality. Providing information about the Rules is, by definition, not advice. So the title of this thread 'Wrong Advice Given' is a misnomer.

Second, players are responsible for applying the Rules to themselves and a player may ask for help with the Rules from a referee or the Committee. (Rule 1.3b(1)) As you were (presumably) neither a referee nor the Committee, the information or guidance you provided to the player had no standing under the Rules.

Third, as marker, if you had knowingly certified a wrong score for a hole you should be disqualified. (Rule 3.3b(1)) There is no suggestion that you knowingly certified a wrong score.

Fourth, in a doubtful Rules situation the player could have played a second ball and reported the facts of the situation to the Committee before returning the scorecard. (Rule 20.1c(3))

Finally, normally, a penalty must not be added or corrected after a stroke-play competition has closed but a player must be disqualified even after the competition is closed if they returned a score for any hole lower than actually taken. Except the player is not disqualified if the reason for the lower score is the exclusion of one or more penalty strokes that they did not know about before the competition closed. (Rule 20.2e(2))

All the above I understood or now understand. I was trying to help my companion work out what he should do. Whatever he did he knew he was subject to a General Penalty and had to go back and retake his shot.

If we had worked out what the correct ruling was before I signed his card, I believe he would have had to accept a second two shot general penalty for playing the wrong ball. So his nine would have been an eleven. A Nelly plus One. I didn’t knowingly sign his card with the incorrect score.