Would you have a lesson from one of these guys????

[JustOne]

on the note that we all have had a lesson in the past how many have played for years without a lesson then decide to have one,we have built up years of bad habits BUT still knock the ball around and win comps and get a decent lowish h/c,only to be told on your first lesson how bad your grip/stance/posture/takeaway/swing path etc etc and the pro tells you he will mold your swing into a text book one! then for months your game goes down the pan you hate the game and having spent hundreds of pounds revert back to your original swing,my swing is not the best but that's just it it is my swing not one that is identical to every other one a particular pro wishes me to have and teaches everyone who pays him,an old pro who used to give me lessons 40+ years ago always said so long as the club head is square when it hits the ball who cares how it got there and isn't that the idea?

I totally agree, but you do have a CHOICE. You can also opt for a 'quick fix' or perhaps have a few things explained to you that you can take away to work on (eg: an explaination of the clubface and path and how they influence your ball flight). Having a lesson doesn't necessarily mean an entire swing rebuild... although ANY change might make you worse!! (certainly in the short term if not the long).

 

[6inchcup]

I totally agree, but you do have a CHOICE. You can also opt for a 'quick fix' or perhaps have a few things explained to you that you can take away to work on (eg: an explanation of the clubface and path and how they influence your ball flight). Having a lesson doesn't necessarily mean an entire swing rebuild... although ANY change might make you worse!! (certainly in the short term if not the long).

so you go to a pro and say" i don't want you to change anything about my swing or grip etc etc,i just want you to give me a lesson based on what i have please" and what would his reaction be.

 

[Foxholer]

I'd take a lesson (if I ever wanted one) from anyone that I trust... qualified or not.

How do you know/find out that you can trust them?

The PGA qualification has rather more, though certainly not automatic, credence for 'trust' than a 6 day course which, at £250 per day, is pretty expensive too!

 

[sev112]

Might be worth a discussion on a separate thread, but i am yet to be convinced why we need Amateur and professional designations in golf. I must admit i am not aware of any other sports that would prevent me playing a game ever again just because i once sold someone some golf balls, or god forbid took £10 for giving someone a golf lesson, let alone (even worse) getting a hole in one and winning a car.

unless i am missing something obvious (which is very possible) again it seems to me about closed shops again - what am i missing ?

 

[Alex1975]

on the note that we all have had a lesson in the past how many have played for years without a lesson then decide to have one,we have built up years of bad habits BUT still knock the ball around and win comps and get a decent lowish h/c,only to be told on your first lesson how bad your grip/stance/posture/takeaway/swing path etc etc and the pro tells you he will mold your swing into a text book one! then for months your game goes down the pan you hate the game and having spent hundreds of pounds revert back to your original swing,my swing is not the best but that's just it it is my swing not one that is identical to every other one a particular pro wishes me to have and teaches everyone who pays him,an old pro who used to give me lessons 40+ years ago always said so long as the club head is square when it hits the ball who cares how it got there and isn't that the idea?

Provided you can get the club square[if that is the shot you want to play] about the same every time then you are golden, I would think pros desire to change your swing for consistency.

 

[JustOne]

so you go to a pro and say" i don't want you to change anything about my swing or grip etc etc,i just want you to give me a lesson based on what i have please" and what would his reaction be.

Sounds like a great opportunity to take the money!

 

[evahakool]

Anyone can call themselves a golf coach and charge to teach golf.
They would lose their amatuer status
The PGA would 'black' any club/business who employed a non qualified coach.

In Scotland a Clubgolf/PGA trained volunteer may coach youngsters at clubs provided they are not payed [other than expenses].

In the 1970's I knew a young PGA qualified assistant who would struggle to break 100.
He was giving 50 lessons a week at a well known golf range run by a former Ryder Cup captain.
Glad to say that the PGA have tightened up a bit since then.

Its not changed that much in Scotland,I recently took a two day course for training juniors which was run by the SGU by one of their top coaches,two on the course were 28h/cs, and not once did the coach look at any of our swings, or ask us about the fundementals of golf, all on the course went on to pass and we recieved an SQA level one certifacate which quilified us to teach alongside a quilfied pro.

Alough this was a course I went on just to help out with the juniors I was still shocked that anyone with just a very basic knowledge could get this quilfacation.

 

[6inchcup]

Sounds like a great opportunity to take the money!

and how many just do that,they have a one size fits all attitude and teach everyone the same method,i have been for an MOT that was advertised at a local range (free) basically just to check if my club settings still suited me (getting older and swing a bit shorter) after peppering the 165 yd marker with my 7i i thought everything was fine,ohhh no it wasn't according to the chap who was giving the MOT my grip was wrong and i should lean in a bit more!!! and he could give me lessons for £100 for 6 1/2 hr sessions,he also tried to sell me some game improver clubs,now looking at some waiting and some previous to me they looked like newer players and would probably fall for the spiel,i declined, got a bucket of balls and proceed to hit long straight irons and long high fading drives and a few pin tight wedges some waiting were watching me and nodding in approval" great,i see that tip i gave you is working fine for you!!!" the shout from the pro aimed at my direction,i just smiled and left.

 

[Mary]

Question for Bob: What roughly is the % of the PGA course spent on looking at the golf swing and teaching methods? Just wondering about ex-pros who may wish to teach (and have the ability to do so), but have no interest in learning about how to run the pro shop. There does not currently seem to be a credible qualification for teaching only.

 

[bobmac]

Question for Bob: What roughly is the % of the PGA course spent on looking at the golf swing and teaching methods?

Well, if you believe James says it's practically nil, in which case we must have done different courses.
I would say its about 40 %.
But that involves swing analysis, ball flights, sport science, teaching different styles (audio, visual and kinetic), including children, the "not so young" and the shtoopid and being able to describe and demonstrate all the different types of shots.
Then about 30% on business
And the rest on rules, workshop, IT etc.
There are 8 modules in all and you MUST pass them all.

If you just want to teach there is the W/EGTF which is turn up in clean newish clothes for a week, pay your dosh and away you go

 

[Mary]

Thanks for the info Bob - very interesting, good to know that the teaching section has a wide remit. I can see that rules knowledge and IT would also be important.

I think the problem is, as others have mentioned, that the W/EGTF does not have a lot of credibility.

 

[Minhoca]

Ive come across a few PGA pro's in the past who haven't been very good at communicating information well and others who have been on point. Therefore just because someone is a PGA pro doesn't necessarily mean they are a very good teacher. This fireman could have a really good way of getting the point across so why discount him based on who his governing body is?

 

[MashieNiblick]

I must admit i am not aware of any other sports that would prevent me playing a game ever again just because i once sold someone some golf balls, or god forbid took £10 for giving someone a golf lesson, let alone (even worse) getting a hole in one and winning a car.

unless i am missing something obvious (which is very possible) again it seems to me about closed shops again - what am i missing ?

I think what you are missing is that that none of that is actually correct. (Smiley)

You won't lose your amateur status for selling golf equipment or winning a car for a hole in one (the latter changed this year).

You would lose your amateur status if you gave lessons in return for payment but it can usually be regained after a 1 or 2 year waiting period although this may be shorter or longer, depending on circumstances.

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/amateur/

 

[sev112]

I think what you are missing is that that none of that is actually correct. (Smiley)

You won't lose your amateur status for selling golf equipment or winning a car for a hole in one (the latter changed this year).

You would lose your amateur status if you gave lessons in return for payment but it can usually be regained after a 1 or 2 year waiting period although this may be shorter or longer, depending on circumstances.

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/amateur/

Smiley noted

But i would be interested to know what other sports distinguish payed coaches and prevent them from playing "with the masses". Especially seeing as golf has a really good handicapping system that goes a long way towards evening this out.

PS i must have missed a change of rules on the car/hole in 1 . I am sure various famous people (Bobby Charlton etc ?) have had to give up amateur golf for a couple of years - did they change that rule ?

 

[MashieNiblick]

PS I must have missed a change of rules on the car/hole in 1 . I am sure various famous people (Bobby Charlton etc ?) have had to give up amateur golf for a couple of years - did they change that rule ?

That rule was changed this year. You are right that in the past such winners would have lost their amateur status and would have had to wait to get it back. No restriction on playing friendly golf with their mates in the meantime though. It wasn't like the old Union/League thing in Rugby.

The thing is it is the R&A/USGA which maintains the distinction between amateur and professionals rather than it being any attempt by the professional golfing associations to operate any form of closed shop. Indeed the aim I think is to support the amateur golfer rather than protect the pro.

In the Rules on Amateur Status the R&A says

"The purpose of the Rules (on amateur staus) is to maintain the distinction between amateur and professional golf and to ensure that amateur golf, which is largely self-regulating with regard to the Rules of Golf and handicapping, is free from the pressures that may follow from uncontrolled sponsorship and financial incentive.

Through appropriate limits and restrictions, the Rules are also intended to encourage amateur golfers to focus on the game’s challenges and inherent rewards, rather than any financial gain."
​

I've read that over a few times and I think in essence it just means it wants to ensure there should be some part of the game that is just about playing for love not money

If there were no distinction then some old comps like the Amateur Championships and the Walker and Curtis Cups could disappear like the old Amateur FA Cup.

It's true that the big amateur comps are increasingly dominated by youngsters who are virtually full time players on the road to becoming pros but there must be a lot of older "career" amateurs who take part. What would happen to all the local and regional amateur competitions (e.g County Championships)? Would you get local pros taking part? Would that be fair?

As you say though it is really a debate for another thread.

 

[bladeplayer]

so you go to a pro and say" i don't want you to change anything about my swing or grip etc etc,i just want you to give me a lesson based on what i have please" and what would his reaction be.

Very interesting Question mate because this is exactly what i would like to do & am seriously thinking of doing , im hitting the ball well just missing too many greens from 120ish yards to maximixe scoring ..

What would your first impression be please Bob?