Would you have a lesson from one of these guys????

[Foxholer]

i find it funny that almost everyone thinks it is vital that you are only taught golf by someone with a specific qualification from a closed shop organisation, but that someone who designs a public bridge that hundered of vehicles or pedestrians cross every day or a multistorey building / school is not required to have any particular qualification or professional registration.

Agree with the sentiments re the closed shop. Though looking after its members was one of the PGA's purposes - I'm inclined to think it's main purpose is looking after its own interest these days though!

I do believe there are competency requirements for bridge/building designers though. And pretty sure there's checks to ensure 'disasters' only happen in extremely extreme circumstances, if ever! Do you know something different?

 

[ash01]

i find it funny that almost everyone thinks it is vital that you are only taught golf by someone with a specific qualification from a closed shop organisation, but that someone who designs a public bridge that hundered of vehicles or pedestrians cross every day or a multistorey building / school is not required to have any particular qualification or professional registration.

I understand your original point.

Although you may want to check out the websites of the Royal Institute of British Architects, Institute of Civil Engineers and the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors. All would have accredited members present on a bridge build project.

Ash!!

P.S - I would select a teacher based upon how well they can help me, not on their accreditation. Professional working life would be different however.

 

[sev112]

it's a pointed point from me
I'm a Chartered Civil Engineer, and have designed a wide range of structures and buildings.
However, there is no legal requirement for any structure of those kinds to be designed by any registered professional - many / most of them are, but there are many that are not. Whilst the title "Chartered Engineer" is a protected title, all it really means is that you can't use that title unless you are one ! Anyone can call themselves a "Civil Engineer" (as you will see on many white vans) - that is not a protected title (and that may be fair enough). In Scotland there is a legal requirement for a qualified Structural Engineer/Civil Engineer to approve/sign off structural designs.

Anyway, i'm not too phased or worried by this issue, i just thought it was funny in comparison.

Bythe way, i'd be happy to be taught by someone if they could teach me something 9and i am sure most people could)


Now if we are talking about teaching our kids in schools, then there is something i think might make for a fervent debate.

And if i ever get to Austria in summer, i might be tempted to see what patrick was really like

 

[HomerJSimpson]

If I was a club pro the last thing I'd want is some guy rocking up at the club and offering to teach a few juniors or his mates and taking money away. I can't see many clubs or pros allowing anyone with this qualification to use the facilities to ply their services. That leaves a driving range but again, many are manned by PGA pros or those going through the PGA programme. The issue I see is how you get to teach anywhere once you have the qualification allied to the how well you can actually teach. Just because you have a piece of paper it doesn't mean you can teach proficiently

 

[DappaDonDave]

Simple...those who can't do...teach.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Anyone can call themselves a golf coach and charge to teach golf.
They would lose their amatuer status
The PGA would 'black' any club/business who employed a non qualified coach.

In Scotland a Clubgolf/PGA trained volunteer may coach youngsters at clubs provided they are not payed [other than expenses].

In the 1970's I knew a young PGA qualified assistant who would struggle to break 100.
He was giving 50 lessons a week at a well known golf range run by a former Ryder Cup captain.
Glad to say that the PGA have tightened up a bit since then.

 

[Hendo007]

you need to look outside the box on this one i think, ask yourself this, do you need to be a pro footballer to teach football ? do you need to be a pro of any sport to be able to teach it ? Answer no.

A good teacher is someone who understands all aspects of the sport and has the ability to be able to tell you how it should be done. They don't necessarily have to be the best at it themselves but so long as they can spot your faults and be able to get you to understand how to improve then thats whats required.

 

[Imurg]

Well those who qualify through this must be able to teach somewhere. The WGTF has been going for years. A Guy I knew did the course while at my old club working in the shop. He passed, worked at that club/range for a while and then moved on to a club the other side of Oxford - forget which one. I don't think he's ever done the PGA way but he's getting plenty of work.

You don't have to be good at something to be able to teach/coach - sure, it helps but it's not a necessity.
And just because you're good at something it doesn't mean you can teach it....

 

[Alex1975]

Eh no .... you want your juniours /beginners thought correctly surely, sure if your not fussy who teaches them get any club member to do it , thats a very misleading comment & totaly wrong thing to say ..

Eh yes, I could teach grip, stance and alignment so I am sure our fireman can after his course.

 

[bobmac]

I looked into this before I turned pro.
I phoned around local clubs/driving ranges and every single one insisted on the PGA qualification.

Most pros work in pro shops at your local club and to do that you need to know how it all works....workshop, rules, IT, customer service, stock control, club technology, business, sports science and of course teaching to name but a few.
If your not interested in doing all that, then maybe the EGTF would suit you better as it is basically just teaching.
If you are good at teaching, word will spread and you will get work as long as you can find somewhere to teach in the first place. Maybe thats why Patrick moved abroad to teach, more opportunities.
And the reason the course takes 3 years is the course-work runs over the winter starting in October and finishing in March. That leaves the summer free for playing golf, plus it gives the trainee experience in working in the shop and learning how the club functions and how to deal with those "special customers", a bit like the old apprenticeships.
So, if you want the full package, do the PGA course which is recognised all over the world.
If you just want to teach and you have somewhere to do it, EGTF is probably better suited to you but you may need to go abroad.
I hope that answers some of your questions.

 

[Alex1975]

I looked into this before I turned pro.
I phoned around local clubs/driving ranges and every single one insisted on the PGA qualification.

Most pros work in pro shops at your local club and to do that you need to know how it all works....workshop, rules, IT, customer service, stock control, club technology, business, sports science and of course teaching to name but a few.
If your not interested in doing all that, then maybe the EGTF would suit you better as it is basically just teaching.
If you are good at teaching, word will spread and you will get work as long as you can find somewhere to teach in the first place. Maybe thats why Patrick moved abroad to teach, more opportunities.
And the reason the course takes 3 years is the course-work runs over the winter starting in October and finishing in March. That leaves the summer free for playing golf, plus it gives the trainee experience in working in the shop and learning how the club functions and how to deal with those "special customers", a bit like the old apprenticeships.
So, if you want the full package, do the PGA course which is recognised all over the world.
If you just want to teach and you have somewhere to do it, EGTF is probably better suited to you but you may need to go abroad.
I hope that answers some of your questions.

The way you write this it seems that you don't disrespect it as a qualification? would that be fair to say?

 

[bobmac]

Depends on the coach.
They would lose their amateur status so couldn't play in any club comps and as they're not PGA, they wouldn't be able to play in their events either. Nor would they get courtesy of golf courses.
But if all they want to do is teach and not play, then live and let live, but it's not for me.

 

[bladeplayer]

Eh yes, I could teach grip, stance and alignment so I am sure our fireman can after his course.

But would you or are you good enough at it to charge to do it ? even at a cheap rate for beginners or juniours ?
giving tips or lessons is one thing , charging for them is a different thing altopgether

So you are going against the grain of all the advice that is given on here then ? see the pro & get lessons .. or do you mean get lessons fron anyone that plays for less dosh ? How do you know your grip stance & alignment are correct , or how do you know they are correct for someone elses game ?
Im only asking because from a personal point of view i know i could bring a beginner to the course or the range & probably teach them to hit the ball better , but am i teaching them corectly ? & i would have no business charging them for doing so

 

[Alex1975]

But would you or are you good enough at it to charge to do it ? even at a cheap rate for beginners or juniours ?
giving tips or lessons is one thing , charging for them is a different thing altopgether

So you are going against the grain of all the advice that is given on here then ? see the pro & get lessons .. or do you mean get lessons fron anyone that plays for less dosh ? How do you know your grip stance & alignment are correct , or how do you know they are correct for someone elses game ?
Im only asking because from a personal point of view i know i could bring a beginner to the course or the range & probably teach them to hit the ball better , but am i teaching them corectly ? & i would have no business charging them for doing so

Yep some good points. Ye I could and would enjoy to teach someone the basics, I spend a lot of time as part of my hobby understanding the golf swing... gosh no I would never charge and I also would not take that course. I am an all or nothing guy and if I were to be a coach I would have to be a PGA pro as I would want to be armed with the accreditation.


However, I sometimes see group lessons going on for young kids at clubs, say 5,6,7,8 and there are maybe 10/15 young kids who are all paying a few pounds and learning to swing in a pretty genaral way, I think as much as anything to see if it could be of interest to them. The coach is not going to be able to be identifying indervidual swing issues for each child he is going to be talking about swinging. I think I would trust someone with passion for the game and some training to take my 5-8 year old for there first tast of golf.


I only have a lesson a year if that, I eather request some of Fundy`s time or more recently he will make a comment or two when we are practicing. He is not a PGA pro or even a coach, he is an ex scratch golfer who happens to have a very keen eye when it comes to spotting faults/issues(even though he does not think so). I trust him, he is pretty much always right about my swing even if I try to talk him out of what he has said as I believe I am doing something other than what he says. I have never been right so far so I now don't fight it. The other day I was warming up for a game and he was practising, we were chatting all things life and golf and as I was about to walk to the first tee he said.. oh by the way the bad one is when your not getting your hands high enough. I thought nothing of it as the bad ones are not too many. A few days later I hit one of the bad ones and remembered what he had said so make his correction and it was a "bing" moment. Its clearly something I am doing correct most of the time but he spotted it as the thing I was not doing when I hit a poor shot. Would I let him teach my little girl... in a heart beat. Would I let another person of the same standard help me or my child... maybe not. If you have passion and knowledge or an eye then I think that maybe more important than accreditation.


I have had lessons with Pros who no longer play golf, as soon as I find out that they dont I stop using them, for me you have to have passion for the game and be able to communicate with all types of people in the way THEY want.

 

[Matty]

I think it very much depends on two people - the possible student and the individual selling their coaching skills.

Not all driving instructors can do fast laps in F1 cars or complete a WRC rally stage but they can still teach you to drive a car.

Just because someone has a PGA, WGTF or EGTF certificate doesn't mean they can teach the game of golf. Some will be natural coaches with or without the certificate and some will never be able to teach no matter how many certificates they hold.

The same teaching approach will not suit all learners to live and let live. If you get a coach and you like them as a person and your game moves the right way surely it's worth what you are willing to pay irrespective of their qualification.

 

[palindromicbob]

I think we've all done something similar to that scienceboy, and the odd tip etc is always handy and makes for good chat.

But would you consider the fact of shelling at £40 to someone of a similar handicap to yourself thats done 6 days trainging to become qualified.

Not when I pay £20 for lesson with a PGA pro.

 

[JustOne]

Perhaps some of you would be surprised as to just how little about the golf swing a PGA qualification contains... basically nothing. It's real time experience (generally years of it) that makes the pro at your club a decent (or crap) teacher and nothing to do with his qualification.

I'd take a lesson (if I ever wanted one) from anyone that I trust... qualified or not.

 

[daymond]

Do the PGA regularly reassess their members? Do the PGA require their members to attend courses as part of their Continuing Professional Development (CPD) as most 'professional' bodies do?

 

[6inchcup]

on the note that we all have had a lesson in the past how many have played for years without a lesson then decide to have one,we have built up years of bad habits BUT still knock the ball around and win comps and get a decent lowish h/c,only to be told on your first lesson how bad your grip/stance/posture/takeaway/swing path etc etc and the pro tells you he will mold your swing into a text book one! then for months your game goes down the pan you hate the game and having spent hundreds of pounds revert back to your original swing,my swing is not the best but that's just it it is my swing not one that is identical to every other one a particular pro wishes me to have and teaches everyone who pays him,an old pro who used to give me lessons 40+ years ago always said so long as the club head is square when it hits the ball who cares how it got there and isn't that the idea?

 

[User 105]

I only consider a qualification the beginning and not the end. As has been said, just because you have the bit of paper does not in my book make you a good teacher. But at least it's foundation to start from.

I'm a Programme Director and have interviewed 100's, if not 1000's, of Project Managers over the years. All with very impressive CV's and project management qualifications and certifications coming out of there back sides. When you actually ask them some real world scenarios you'd be surprised how many just don't have a clue or will just spout out random phrases from the courses they've been on.

Qualifications give you a grounding and a base level of knowledge but can't in any way replace experience.