World Handicapping System

[scubascuba3]

One of the flaws not addressed with the new system is those handicaps based on playing most of the golf at one golf course vs a handicap based on playing many different golf courses. For example my handicap in the UK is 5 where i play mostly ine course, in Thailand where i play many courses its 7-8. Slope will not help with that. I wonder whether they even know its an issue

 

[rulefan]

One of the flaws not addressed with the new system is those handicaps based on playing most of the golf at one golf course vs a handicap based on playing many different golf courses. For example my handicap in the UK is 5 where i play mostly ine course, in Thailand where i play many courses its 7-8. Slope will not help with that. I wonder whether they even know its an issue

The USGA Course Rating and Slope together with the averaging system should deal with that.
Averaging on it own can produce a difference of 2/3 stokes vs the CONGU ratchet

 

[scubascuba3]

The USGA Course Rating and Slope together with the averaging system should deal with that.
Averaging on it own can produce a difference of 2/3 stokes vs the CONGU ratchet

I'm not sure it will address it, i know guys who mainly play one course and their USGA handicaps are lower than guys who play loads of courses

 

[rulefan]

That's why different CSS calculations are done for away players. Familiarity with a course helps.

But I have some doubts about your sample size

 

[duncan mackie]

You can't really deal with that aspect of any handicap calculation.

It's recognised - it's the reason for seperate CSS calculations for home and away players in opens; and estimated at about 1.5 shots of "home advantage".

However, self evidently if you play,nor played, another course to the same extent you would have some, or all, of that beneficial knowledge. So trying to reflect the factor in a rating or index won't work.

It's recognised st every level. There's also an element of courses suiting people so they tend to join those courses. This also results in an understated handicap.

To the extent that a player is a bogey player, and his capabilities match the assumptions made in slope rating, some factors will be significantly improved in that area - but not every 20 index golfer has the same playing profile!

 

[Foxholer]

One of the flaws not addressed with the new system is those handicaps based on playing most of the golf at one golf course vs a handicap based on playing many different golf courses. For example my handicap in the UK is 5 where i play mostly ine course, in Thailand where i play many courses its 7-8. Slope will not help with that. I wonder whether they even know its an issue

Worth remembering that the 2 systems are not directly comparable - that's precisely why the WHS is being proposed/implemented!

Your '5' really IS a handicap. The 7-8 of the Slope system is an Index, from which the handicap for any round, off the particular tees, is calculated! In fact, it seems to me that you are likely to have a higher handicap for a particular round than your index - as I suspect most of the courses you'd play would have a course rating higher than 113 (the 'standard' for slope calculation).

I believe the Slope system generates a truer 'handicap'! While low cappers tend to be much more consistent, how often, when you are at your home club, do you actually play to 5 (or 6)?

And when you go to 'another' different course in Thailand, surely the 'adjusted for unfamiliarity' nature of your Index is exactly what should happen!

Btw. Those number values are the reverse of what my experience of Slope vs Congu. Normally Slope Index is a tad lower than Congu.

 

[upsidedown]

One of the flaws not addressed with the new system is those handicaps based on playing most of the golf at one golf course vs a handicap based on playing many different golf courses. For example my handicap in the UK is 5 where i play mostly ine course, in Thailand where i play many courses its 7-8. Slope will not help with that. I wonder whether they even know its an issue

At a seminar today and if I understood it correctly I think this has been addressed . In that all handicaps will now be based on the same slope of 113. Can't remember the maths but basically you take your HI to the course your playing, apply the slope , play, work out your nett differential , take off the slope then your new score for one of your 20 is worked out using 113 .

 

[rulefan]

It's a bit more complicated but in essence that's it.
And apart from looking at the chart to get your course handicap, it's all done by computer.

 

[Mobie]

Check out www.popeofslope.com as a historical record of all things to do with slope. Compiled by Dean Knuth who invented the system. It has a particularly interesting section on how to deal with ‘sandbagging’. This is a problem we don’t encounter in the U.K. under the present system but an issue that our US friends have to deal with a lot in open competitions and likely something that we will need to deal with in the U.K. post 2020.

 

[duncan mackie]

Check out www.popeofslope.com as a historical record of all things to do with slope. Compiled by Dean Knuth who invented the system. It has a particularly interesting section on how to deal with ‘sandbagging’. This is a problem we don’t encounter in the U.K. under the present system but an issue that our US friends have to deal with a lot in open competitions and likely something that we will need to deal with in the U.K. post 2020.

As there will be no fundamental difference in the scores submitted to the system in the UK post 2020 there will be nothing new to deal with in this regard.

 

[Mobie]

Not so. Recreational (bounce) rounds will be submitted post 2020 therefore there will be a lot more scores on which to base the handicap calculation. A quote from golf monthly’s article on the subject - ‘
Overall, the introduction of the new WHS is set to have a big impact, and there will be a good deal for clubs and club golfers to work out.’
Read more at https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/feat...p-system-explained-156417#pgJ2bWAy0XI2v0FE.99

 

[Colin L]

Not so. Recreational (bounce) rounds will be submitted post 2020 therefore there will be a lot more scores on which to base the handicap calculation. A quote from golf monthly’s article on the subject - ‘
Overall, the introduction of the new WHS is set to have a big impact, and there will be a good deal for clubs and club golfers to work out.’
Read more at https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/feat...p-system-explained-156417#pgJ2bWAy0XI2v0FE.99

It will be a matter for CONGU or other relevant handicapping authority to determine what scores are submitted. I can't see CONGU changing from the current requirement for all qualifying rounds to be played under the rules and scores attested by a marker and would be surprised if EGA will be different. Since match play is the predominant format for bounce games, I don't see much change ahead in the number of qualifying scores being submitted through supplementary scores. Mind you, I'd like to be wrong in that and wouldn't be averse to an increase in the minimum number of scores per year required to retain a competition handicap.

 

[rulefan]

Colin
There will be no such thing as a competition handicap - that is going. However, clubs may limit prize winning (or entry even) in a particular competition to players with a minimum number of scores (eg in a year say).
England Golf has said that there will be no immediate change to the CONGU counting scores (ie qualifying comps and supplementary scores).
Ultimately, matchplay, fourball, bounce/casual etc scores will be included but will require pre-declaration and only when further work has been done on how the scores will be calculated.

 

[Colin L]

Colin
There will be no such thing as a competition handicap - that is going. However, clubs may limit prize winning (or entry even) in a particular competition to players with a minimum number of scores (eg in a year say).
England Golf has said that there will be no immediate change to the CONGU counting scores (ie qualifying comps and supplementary scores).
Ultimately, matchplay, fourball, bounce/casual etc scores will be included but will require pre-declaration and only when further work has been done on how the scores will be calculated.

You're ahead of me. I made the decision to deal with learning the rules this year and leave the new handicapping system till next. A bit daft then to be commenting on the handicapping at this point.
You'll know the next time I do comment I'll have finished my homework. Till then,

 

[duncan mackie]

Not so. Recreational (bounce) rounds will be submitted post 2020 therefore there will be a lot more scores on which to base the handicap calculation. A quote from golf monthly’s article on the subject - ‘
Overall, the introduction of the new WHS is set to have a big impact, and there will be a good deal for clubs and club golfers to work out.’
Read more at https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/feat...p-system-explained-156417#pgJ2bWAy0XI2v0FE.99

I think you may have miss understood the implementation in the UK.

The only scores that will be permitted within the system are those that match the current supplemental scores rules (apart from the implications in those for the existing cat 1 special rules).

I stand by my statement; and quoting a relatively old article, that even claims not to know what will actually be happening, is hardly any form of proof. Read it closely and, sadly, you realise the relationship between informative journalism and 'stimulative' (I'm being generous)

 

[duncan mackie]

Colin
There will be no such thing as a competition handicap - that is going. However, clubs may limit prize winning (or entry even) in a particular competition to players with a minimum number of scores (eg in a year say).
England Golf has said that there will be no immediate change to the CONGU counting scores (ie qualifying comps and supplementary scores).
Ultimately, matchplay, fourball, bounce/casual etc scores will be included but will require pre-declaration and only when further work has been done on how the scores will be calculated.

Thank you for the clarity

 

[rulefan]

Colin
Ultimately, matchplay, fourball, bounce/casual etc scores will be included but will require pre-declaration and only when further work has been done on how the scores will be calculated.

I should have made it clear this will make little difference in the US, Canada and other countries who traditionally have a different view on life. Casual/social score will still be counted but pre-declaration will be required. Eventually all the facets of the WHS will be implemented and elements not in the WHS will be abandoned as each current rules body takes the WHS on. I believe Europe (EGA) will take the same approach as CONGU.

 

[rulefan]

WHS FAQs & Key Features

https://www.englandgolf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Handicapping-FAQs-final.pdf

https://www.englandgolf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Highlights-of-WHS_Jan-24_FINAL_cb-EG.pdf

https://www.englandgolf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/WHS-Map_Jan-24_FINAL-EG-.pdf

 

[jim8flog]

WHS FAQs & Key Features

https://www.englandgolf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Handicapping-FAQs-final.pdf

https://www.englandgolf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Highlights-of-WHS_Jan-24_FINAL_cb-EG.pdf

https://www.englandgolf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/WHS-Map_Jan-24_FINAL-EG-.pdf

Thanks for those

one big point picked up is that we should not print more score cards (with the new LRs) than will be needed before it comes in and we are just about to order some.