Woods - What revolution

I think Tiger has made a big difference to golf.
As someone once said "there are a lot of players that are millionaires because of Tiger".
He took purses to another level,due to the fact companies wanted to advertise and sponser golf events.
He also took the game to a new level,not only his personel game but others as well.
He won tournaments at a canter,and players certainly realised they would have to do more,and a lot more in there games just to compete.
He took fitness to a new level,and players were getting left behind.
An example is Lee Westwood,he has taken his fitness to Tigers level,and he needed to.
As for the colour issue,yes im surprised more have not joined the tour,however the USA college system is the biggest in the world and im sure there are some great coloured players coming through.
Also look at golf now,it needs Tiger Woods,many people complained on the forum that the golf was boring because the best in the world were not contesting the final day.
Others moaned the coverage was all Tiger whilst he was playing the first two days.
Of course you cant have everything,and please everyone,but imo golf needs Tiger.
 
Interesting bit Homer but I don't agree.

Personally I think Tiger made the game more appealing to a whole host of people across all ages. Granted golf may still be a rich kids sport to some but in reality so are pretty much all sports when the better off kiddies get all the best gear and all the best opportunities.

I know Vijay Singh isn't american but if black people need to look up to a black person like you seem to put across then I would have thought they could have looked at him.

Having watched Tiger for years play some of the most entertaining things I've ever seen I can say that for me Tiger was a revolution to the game.

Some people are idolised for the things he has done off the course.

As much as I used to like John Daly I believe he is always liked more for his burger eating, gambling and heavy drinking. Most people will talk about this first before any shot he hit and he hit a few special ones. People will always remember Tigers golf first.

Thumbs up to the black guy for me.
 
"From my casual observations over the last few years, there are still people getting into the game but again, the number of black players, indeed from any diverse ethnicities still seems shamefully low."

I think it's pretty much impossible to judge the amount of people from different ethnicities taking up the game from "casual observations" mate. I think you really have to look at the figures...

According to a 2004 study at Indiana University, before Woods' professional golf debut in '96, a typical annual increase in new golfers was 1%. The ''Tiger Woods Effect'' lifted it to 5%. The percentage of African-American golfers has doubled since '96, the study said

The reason why we still haven't seen another black player on the PGA tour is probably down to the fact that even though the amount of African-American golfers has more than doubled (which is obviously a huge increase) the total amount of african-american golfers is still such a small percentage of the total amount of golfers out there.

Golf is still expensive, and while it is getting cheaper and more accessable (Ninety percent of the nearly 500 new courses built in 2003 were public. Approximately 500 inner city golf programs exist, compared to 85 in 1994.), is still going to be played more by the wealthy.

I started playing junior golf in Bermuda in 1994, just before Tiger came on the scene, and my casual observations were that the impact he had on the game was absolutely huge. Not just in terms of increasing the size and racial diversity of the programme but in inspiring all of us to practice and work hard at our games from a young age if we wanted to reach the top.

I personally believe that Tiger's effect on the game of golf is immeasurably large but that it will still take more time for us to fully see those effects at the top level of the game.
 
I can't see it to be honest. Look at the English Premier League... there was no one star in the same way that golf had Tiger and look at the rise in transfer fees, prize money etc. It was the same in sport all over the world.

Money would have come into golf regardless of Tiger's existence. Tiger's career simply coincided with a boom in the world economy and his fall from grace coincides with a world recession (and subsequent fall/plateau in prize money and sponsorship). Neither of these things have been caused by Tiger, no matter what the golfing press would have you believe.
 
Tiger like it or not changed the way golf was played and how it is now on tv every week.

When Tiger went through his dominating period everybody wanted a bit of the action in sponsorship. Other players have come out and said if it wasnt for him the prize money would be no where near the level it is today. People who say he didnt and it wouldve happened anyway is complete rubbish, listen to the interviews from the players themselves.

He in turn lead to the PGA tour becoming a massive money maker for players which then leads to the european tour having to try and match the same kind of money to keep the players and events at a good level.

Monty has been trying to get Tiger to come play in Europe over the past couple of weeks as they know he is still the biggest draw in the game.

On a golf front again listen to the players talk about how Tiger changed the game, he came in more fitter and hitting the ball longer which lead to players having to get fit and really push themselves if they wanted to try and match what he has done.

He has inspired a lot of people to play golf around the world with some of the shots he has played and the enthusiasm for the game that he had when he was in his prime.

We probably haven't seen the big boost as it has mainly happened in America and if a certain McIlroy went onto do the same thing as Tiger I am sure you would see a huge uptake in golf here in the UK.

Unfortunately Tiger has had some wrongdoings in his past and unfortunately people seem like they just cant forgive him for this, he is not the only person to of had an affair but because of who he is hes had to stand up and apologise in front of the world for it where as others could just hide away.

People need to accept that what he has done in the game is great for people who have only seen him dominate. To me Tiger has been the greatest player I have ever seen play, he is a massive inspiration to a lot of people. Someone like me cannot compare him to the likes of Jack Nicklaus etc because I havent seen them play which is why I think the older generation hate Tiger as they are always comparing him to the other legends of the game.

Now comparing what Tiger done compared to the Premiership is the wrong way to go. If you want to compare that take Man Utd for example. They have become a global brand and have bought in so much money to the premier league because everyone around the world wants to see United. Again another team hated because of the success they have had.

Not everyone will agree with what I have said and I can understand everyone has there own opinions. All I will say to finish off is having a debate about someone who has changed the game must mean they have done in such a way. No one seems to ask about other pros who have changed it. So that would leave me to say...

Tiger changed the way the whole world took to golf!
 
I can't see it to be honest. Look at the English Premier League... there was no one star in the same way that golf had Tiger and look at the rise in transfer fees, prize money etc. It was the same in sport all over the world.

Money would have come into golf regardless of Tiger's existence. Tiger's career simply coincided with a boom in the world economy and his fall from grace coincides with a world recession (and subsequent fall/plateau in prize money and sponsorship). Neither of these things have been caused by Tiger, no matter what the golfing press would have you believe.
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Errr, utter rubbish?! Money in football has come about from Sky, billionaire investment in clubs and mainly TV rights and exposure all over the world and the merchandising revenue that brings. The clubs are sold all over the world as premium brands and the public invest time and money in brands as they want to associated with them.

Tiger's achievements in golf has meant a golfing 'brand' that people want to see. Hence vast TV audiences and crowd interest at PGA events to watch the 'best' in action, particularly in America. As with football, the advent of satellite worldwide TV has enabled more TV rights and massive commercial opportunities. It's just simple economics.

There's no way on Earth that if Tiger hadn't done what he had, golf wouldn't be where it is now. Without Tiger in his peak, there would be no golf brand to sell to untapped markets....
 
I think that it is difficult to judge Tiger on merely his effect on golf, as that undervalues him, for the past 15 years he has been a massive role model to sportsmen of all disciplines, as an example to everyone as to what level can be achieved through hardwork and dedication. You cannot really say that because there are no other black players on the tour he has not had a positive effect on black sportsmen, i wonder if you interviewed the top coloured sportmen around the world (including our own Lewis Hamilton) and asked them who their sporting heroes are i would guess woods would come very high on that list.
Its already been said but Golfs image was radically overhauled by woods, far more youngsters (whatever their colour) were encouraged to take the sport up and we are now surely seeing the results of this when nearly every week a 20 yr old is at the top of the leaderboard.
Ok for the period he was out the game Golf seemed to continue without him quite well but had he not have ever taken up Golf i doubt it would be the sport it now is.
 
I accept that he had an enormous effect on TV revenue, prize money, endorsements etc as a result of his dominance and said so in the beginning paragraphs. What I think is interesting is Dey said in the 60's there wouldn't be any black players on tour at the beginning of the next century and apart from Woods he was right.

I'm not concerned about the cash side of things, but if he was suppose to be this new role model (before his off course problems) why isn't there already another black American on tour. I accept EZP's point about a radical uptake in his neck of the woods as a result but again that was close to the US and I can see how to a degree that would happen. What about here though? Have we really seen a huge rise in juniors taking up the game as a result over and beyond the normal recruitment drives the Golf Foundation and others do at grass roots level and did he really influence other black and ethnicities youngsters.

I do happen to think there is an inevitability that he will have been a role model in his pomp and touched other sports across the globe but did it really make a difference to the numbers coming in to golf here in the UK
 
Tiger like it or not changed the way golf was played and how it is now on tv every week.

When Tiger went through his dominating period everybody wanted a bit of the action in sponsorship. Other players have come out and said if it wasnt for him the prize money would be no where near the level it is today. People who say he didnt and it wouldve happened anyway is complete rubbish, listen to the interviews from the players themselves.

He in turn lead to the PGA tour becoming a massive money maker for players which then leads to the european tour having to try and match the same kind of money to keep the players and events at a good level.

Monty has been trying to get Tiger to come play in Europe over the past couple of weeks as they know he is still the biggest draw in the game.

On a golf front again listen to the players talk about how Tiger changed the game, he came in more fitter and hitting the ball longer which lead to players having to get fit and really push themselves if they wanted to try and match what he has done.

He has inspired a lot of people to play golf around the world with some of the shots he has played and the enthusiasm for the game that he had when he was in his prime.

We probably haven't seen the big boost as it has mainly happened in America and if a certain McIlroy went onto do the same thing as Tiger I am sure you would see a huge uptake in golf here in the UK.

Unfortunately Tiger has had some wrongdoings in his past and unfortunately people seem like they just cant forgive him for this, he is not the only person to of had an affair but because of who he is hes had to stand up and apologise in front of the world for it where as others could just hide away.

People need to accept that what he has done in the game is great for people who have only seen him dominate. To me Tiger has been the greatest player I have ever seen play, he is a massive inspiration to a lot of people. Someone like me cannot compare him to the likes of Jack Nicklaus etc because I havent seen them play which is why I think the older generation hate Tiger as they are always comparing him to the other legends of the game.

Now comparing what Tiger done compared to the Premiership is the wrong way to go. If you want to compare that take Man Utd for example. They have become a global brand and have bought in so much money to the premier league because everyone around the world wants to see United. Again another team hated because of the success they have had.

Not everyone will agree with what I have said and I can understand everyone has there own opinions. All I will say to finish off is having a debate about someone who has changed the game must mean they have done in such a way. No one seems to ask about other pros who have changed it. So that would leave me to say...

Tiger changed the way the whole world took to golf!
Click to expand...

The forums post of the month by a long long way.
 
What I think is interesting is Dey said in the 60's there wouldn't be any black players on tour at the beginning of the next century and apart from Woods he was right.
Click to expand...

But he is majorly wrong in that quote. The biggest player of the start of the 20th century was black. Thats like me sayin Liverpool are by far the most successful team in England no one will catch them, Long as you take Man Utd out.
 
What I think is interesting is Dey said in the 60's there wouldn't be any black players on tour at the beginning of the next century and apart from Woods he was right.
Click to expand...

But he is majorly wrong in that quote. The biggest player of the start of the 20th century was black. Thats like me sayin Liverpool are by far the most successful team in England no one will catch them, Long as you take Man Utd out.
Click to expand...

But this was after the tour relaxed their white only policy and saw a huge influx initially. Apart from Woods at the turn of the century and bearing in mind he was a pro from 96 who else was there and who has followed since. Only five black winners on tour apart from Woods in 50 years hardly says there has been a huge success in developing a role model, before during or since Woods came along. I'd argue that the European tour has been more successful in encouraging ethnic winners (Jeev Mika Singh etc) without the week in week out Woods brand
 
If Woods getting mega rich and knocking off hundreds of women isn't inspiring kids (of all colours) to take up golf they are beyond salvation.
 
Woods does it for Woods and noone else. If you believe any thing else you are living in cookoo land. He has indirectly made others rich via his own brand and skill from raising prize money agreed but no one man can be bigger than the game. In any game! He has been influencial for sure we cant ingnore that but also in the complete wrong way. For a man with that talent in this sort of game you have to behave and act as a professional at all times. He comes across as a spoilt, moody obnoxious dick that would do better to go buy himself some humility and personality. The last straw for me was the spitting incident on the green. What sort of message was that to kids and followers? And a complete disrespect for his other playing partners. Personally I agree he has changed the game but in more wrong ways than good. I persoanlly cant stand the bloke and hope he spends the rest of his dwindling carreer faultering in no mans land with some of us more average folk. Perhaps he might learn a lesson or two and even get a slap! Just my opinion of course.
 
Tiger like it or not changed the way golf was played and how it is now on tv every week.

When Tiger went through his dominating period everybody wanted a bit of the action in sponsorship. Other players have come out and said if it wasnt for him the prize money would be no where near the level it is today. People who say he didnt and it wouldve happened anyway is complete rubbish, listen to the interviews from the players themselves.

He in turn lead to the PGA tour becoming a massive money maker for players which then leads to the european tour having to try and match the same kind of money to keep the players and events at a good level.

Monty has been trying to get Tiger to come play in Europe over the past couple of weeks as they know he is still the biggest draw in the game.

On a golf front again listen to the players talk about how Tiger changed the game, he came in more fitter and hitting the ball longer which lead to players having to get fit and really push themselves if they wanted to try and match what he has done.

He has inspired a lot of people to play golf around the world with some of the shots he has played and the enthusiasm for the game that he had when he was in his prime.

We probably haven't seen the big boost as it has mainly happened in America and if a certain McIlroy went onto do the same thing as Tiger I am sure you would see a huge uptake in golf here in the UK.

Unfortunately Tiger has had some wrongdoings in his past and unfortunately people seem like they just cant forgive him for this, he is not the only person to of had an affair but because of who he is hes had to stand up and apologise in front of the world for it where as others could just hide away.

People need to accept that what he has done in the game is great for people who have only seen him dominate. To me Tiger has been the greatest player I have ever seen play, he is a massive inspiration to a lot of people. Someone like me cannot compare him to the likes of Jack Nicklaus etc because I havent seen them play which is why I think the older generation hate Tiger as they are always comparing him to the other legends of the game.

Now comparing what Tiger done compared to the Premiership is the wrong way to go. If you want to compare that take Man Utd for example. They have become a global brand and have bought in so much money to the premier league because everyone around the world wants to see United. Again another team hated because of the success they have had.

Not everyone will agree with what I have said and I can understand everyone has there own opinions. All I will say to finish off is having a debate about someone who has changed the game must mean they have done in such a way. No one seems to ask about other pros who have changed it. So that would leave me to say...

Tiger changed the way the whole world took to golf!
Click to expand...

Rubbish.

The game of golf was great before Tiger and it will be great after he is a footnote in the game. He arrived at a time when one wave of great players (Faldo, Seve, Norman etc) were moving out of the spotlight, and has moved on again now that another group (McIlroy, Fowler, Bradley - TFIC) )have come along. Sure, he dominated the game for a decade or so, and arguably (although not in my opinion) was the greatest player in the game, but what did he do for the game?.

Making a bunch of wealthy golfers wealthier is not doing good for the game. But Tiger has ushered in a era of expectation now, where players expect to earn gazillions, get andorsement contracts for everything they can plug, and fly on private jets from every event to the next. Is that helping golf? I doubt it. Has he really encouraged the building of more golf courses? No. In fact he has personally been involved in a couple of busted vanity projects (in North Carolina and Dubai). And has he brought a new generation of players into the game? How do we know they weren't going to come in anyway.

It has also made it OK for players to go around with a phalanx of goons in Nike sweatshirts, and to stage manage their interactions with the public. Tiger was a cynically conceived brand, with his cosmopolitan upbringing, family values and all that crap. Turned out the family values he inherited included a fondness for blonde slappers. I guess old Dad taught him something.

The issue with Tiger is not that he had an affair, it is that he had cynically built a fake image to con the public into buying into the brand. You don't hear much about Lee Westwood's family, because he has chosen not to exploit that aspect of his life. If Tiger had likewise kept his private life private, then it would be exactly that - private. But he made it public to use it to support his brands, and when it was proven to be a lie, he deserved what he got. Of course, Tiger's fondness for the blondes was well known, yet his narcissism made him believe he was untouchable. Then when the whole facade fell, he claimed sex addiction. What a pitiful excuse and failure to take responsibility.

If Tiger retired from golf tomorrow, then apart from Tim Finchem hanging himself no lasting harm would come to the game of golf.
 
Rubbish.

The game of golf was great before Tiger and it will be great after he is a footnote in the game. He arrived at a time when one wave of great players (Faldo, Seve, Norman etc) were moving out of the spotlight, and has moved on again now that another group (McIlroy, Fowler, Bradley - TFIC) )have come along. Sure, he dominated the game for a decade or so, and arguably (although not in my opinion) was the greatest player in the game, but what did he do for the game?.

Making a bunch of wealthy golfers wealthier is not doing good for the game. But Tiger has ushered in a era of expectation now, where players expect to earn gazillions, get andorsement contracts for everything they can plug, and fly on private jets from every event to the next. Is that helping golf? I doubt it. Has he really encouraged the building of more golf courses? No. In fact he has personally been involved in a couple of busted vanity projects (in North Carolina and Dubai). And has he brought a new generation of players into the game? How do we know they weren't going to come in anyway.

It has also made it OK for players to go around with a phalanx of goons in Nike sweatshirts, and to stage manage their interactions with the public. Tiger was a cynically conceived brand, with his cosmopolitan upbringing, family values and all that crap. Turned out the family values he inherited included a fondness for blonde slappers. I guess old Dad taught him something.

The issue with Tiger is not that he had an affair, it is that he had cynically built a fake image to con the public into buying into the brand. You don't hear much about Lee Westwood's family, because he has chosen not to exploit that aspect of his life. If Tiger had likewise kept his private life private, then it would be exactly that - private. But he made it public to use it to support his brands, and when it was proven to be a lie, he deserved what he got. Of course, Tiger's fondness for the blondes was well known, yet his narcissism made him believe he was untouchable. Then when the whole facade fell, he claimed sex addiction. What a pitiful excuse and failure to take responsibility.

If Tiger retired from golf tomorrow, then apart from Tim Finchem hanging himself no lasting harm would come to the game of golf.
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It doesnt matter who he was against whether players retired or what, the reason why he rose to how he was because he broke record after record. He would come back and make tournaments interesting because you knew he could make up the 7 shots on the leader and mount pressure.

I am not saying that the game of golf was good before he was pro what I am saying is he managed to get sponsors to come in to help a lot of people earn more money etc which in turn would also help the actual affiliations. Speak to any golfer 25 and under and I bet there top 5 golfers 90% would include Woods. He inspired lots of people to take up the game especially the youth and now McIlroy is taking over that role in the UK

Westwood cannot even be mentioned the same as Woods, everybody loved Woods in the media world and wanted any little scope they could find hence why the family were introduced etc. Having a go at him for something he done in his private life is completely out of order.

I am sure everyone will know at least 1 person who has had an affair, but would you discriminate against them as much as Woods got? No thought not. People forgive because they know them not many people will know Tiger so they just brand him straight away as us human beings love to shoot someone down.

The spitting incident yes he was bang out of order he come out and apologised what else can he do but people still bring it up. Any other player would of got away with it as they are not followed 24/7 like Tiger is.

I think you have proved my point completely you are not judging him on his golfing exploits you are judging him on what he has done out of golf and that wasnt what the original point was about.

I dont really know what else to add about the no black people on tour quote. One of the most decorated players is black and he really did dominate, which to me makes the quote an incorrect prediction. I think give it time as golf is now becoming more global than ever give it 5 or 6years once they get through the college game etc then you will see a lot of players.

Although to add to that quote it is suprising how many asians have actually come into the game and doing well which I dont think many people would have seen coming a few years ago?
 
Oh dear, I think you have completely missed the point.

Tiger thought he was bigger then the game. He wasn't and isn't.

By the way, Tiger is only 1/4 black (aka African-American). He is 1/2 Asian (equal parts Thai and Chinese), 1/8 native American, 1/8 Dutch. Even if you only count 1/8 of his wins, he is certainly the best Dutch player in the modern game.
 
But how do you know he thinks hes bigger than the game. I dont see how anybody can say that without speaking to them. Admittedly he is broadcast a lot specially on nike equipment but hes paid to do that. Other people put him in the spotlight and I dont think anyone would turn down the money he is earning just to have your face put on something.

You just have to look at the magazine we read. There was a Tiger interview a few months ago even though he had barely played he was on the front cover and it was seen as a big interview. I am sure he didnt ask to go on the front cover its just how companies want to use him so he becomes the face of the products.

People got the same way with Beckham he was used for lots of different products people started to hate him, suddenly hes not in the news so much and people love him again. I think when Tiger retires people will miss him from the game. America more than Europe.
 
But how do you know he thinks hes bigger than the game. I dont see how anybody can say that without speaking to them. Admittedly he is broadcast a lot specially on nike equipment but hes paid to do that. Other people put him in the spotlight and I dont think anyone would turn down the money he is earning just to have your face put on something.
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He wasn't dragged against his will to do all his branding. He had the portfolio of advertising, all for nice middle market and aspirational brands, he had his charity work (part of his tax strategy), his inner city work, his course sponsorship. He went to selected events in key overseas markets - Dubai, Asia, Oz. Long term plan was to beat Jack's total, retire from the game and run for a California Senate seat. All quite planned and cynical.

Nike stage managed most of this. You probably haven't seen the ad where old Dad gives him advice from beyond the grave. Pass the sick bag.
 
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